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I’m using a screen-cooling tank on a 17 HP Ruston engine,
running slow and not under load. I tried a belted pump, but the
engine would not warm up. I have the bottom of the tank higher than
the water level in the block of the engine. After it comes out of
the engine, the water has to go up about 38 inches to the
screen.
Is 38 inches too much of a rise from the top of the cylinder to
flow to the screen-cooling tank? – Terry
To thermosiphon, the top pipe must be below the water level to
make a complete loop. A screen-cooled tank won’t allow
thermosiphoning. Could you install a valve before the pump to
throttle the flow? – Bill
You can use any kind of tank for your cooling system, and if you
use a pump you can certainly use a screen cooler. If you do not use
a pump you have a thermosiphon system and the water will circulate
by convection as it gets warm. If you want a screen cooler you must
use a pump – thermosiphon will not ‘pump’ water up to a
screen. You mentioned you used a pump and your engine didn’t
get warm. You were circulating water from your cooling tank and the
engine had to heat up all that water. I had a 15 HP Reid and it
would run for four or five hours before it would heat all of the 40
gallons in my tank. Give it time! – Norm
Aren’t some screen-cooled Moguls thermosiphons, yet they
have a screen tank? The water barely trickles out if you run them
slow, but until the engine is pretty warm nothing comes out! –
Laura
Some of the smaller Moguls are screen-cooled, without a pump.
Until the engine reaches boiling nothing happens, but when the
water starts to boil it bubbles up the pipe and runs down the
screen. This makes for quick warm-up and keeps the engine at a good
temperature for burning kerosene. Notice the screen tank is mounted
high (see above photo) so the cylinder is filled with water all the
time. Can you see any pump on this one? – Ken
A screen-cooled 4 HP IHC Mogul, snapped by Patrick Livingstone
at the September 2002 Sydney (Australia) Antique Machinery Club
Rally.
A friend of mine has a 6 HP, and it also does not have a water
pump. This is how they left the factory and it works fine. The base
of the tank is higher than the cylinder so there is always water in
there. Once the engine warms up it pushes a lot of water over the
screen and it keeps the engine nice and warm for running on
kerosene. Australs and Black-stones have inline taps in the water
line to limit the flow of water. This is common to thermosiphon
tank-cooled engines and engines fitted with water pumps and cooling
towers. It allows for adjustment in the flow of water, which is a
big help in keeping hot-bulb engines warm. – Patrick
When I set up my Model YH Fairbanks, I put the pipe back into
the tank below the water level. The water starts circulating as
soon as there is a temperature difference. If the water gets low
the water in the engine will get up to boiling and bubble up the
pipe and drip into the tank. Either way, as long as the cylinder is
covered with water there is no problem with overheating. Many old
farm tractors and cars did not have a water pump. If the water
level is below the cylinder, as in the Famous and Titan engines,
then a pump is required. – Ken
I had the bottom of my tank higher than the cylinder -maybe I
didn’t let the engine warm up enough. I’ve dropped the tank
6 inches and installed a pump, and I’m going to try a valve
under the tank to restrict water flow to the pump. My concern is
the pump might not hold its prime. If it doesn’t work the tank
might still be high enough for thermosiphoning without the pump.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I’m sure I’m
not done experimenting yet! -Terry
For cooling our Bessemer engines, we found it better to place a
‘T’ after the pump. One line goes to the engine and the
other line goes to the top of the tank for a bypass. A valve in
eachline makes it easy to control the flow through the engine until
it warms up. – Kent
In my thermosiphon-cooled (open system, no pump) 10 HP IHC
Mogul, the water tank/cooling screen is considerably higher than
the cylinder it cools. There is no real thermosiphoning going on,
in the sense of a molecular heat transfer as obtained in a
closed-loop system where heated water rises from the top of the
cylinder and cool water from the tank enters the cylinder from the
bottom.
In the Mogul’s case, when the engine is running and under
load it gets hot. In fact, it can reach boiling temperature rather
quickly, which is great for a kerosene-burning engine. As the water
begins to boil it creates steam and forces itself (steam and hot
water) up the pipe and out of the holes in the return pipe on top
of the screen, where it cools as it falls back into the tank. As
this happens, it creates a partial vacuum in the cylinder proper,
which allows a critically balanced, inline horizontal check valve
from the bottom of the cooling to partially/momentarily open (from
the weight of the water in the cooling tank pushing on it),
allowing cooler water to enter the water jacket around the
cylinder. As soon as the cooler water enters the water jacket, it
cools the cylinder enough so that it stops steaming, the vacuum is
broken and the check valve closes. As the engine heats up again, it
goes through the same cycle.
On the Famous they ‘usually’ had a water pump
circulating the coolant through the engine and up and across the
screen. – Paul
So it’s more of a ‘percolating’ effect rather than
thermosiphoning with the Mogul? – Laura
‘Percolator Cooler,’ I love it! That’s exactly what
it is, not a thermosiphon system. Enjoyed this thread, and learned
something I didn’t know about percolator cooling systems. –
Mike
You guys making fun of my percolator? We’ll see who’s
laughing on that cold engine show night. I’ll have my coffee
cup dipping into my screen cooled ‘percolator’ – maybe even
put some instant coffee in it, giving ‘International
Coffee’ a whole new meaning! I bet nobody has ever had
home-brewed coffee that’s ‘percolated’ through the
innards of an old gas engine! – Laura
An old gentleman who worked in the oil fields told me that if
the cooling system was closed, meaning that the top pipe entered
the tank below the water level, it was called
‘thermosiphon,’ and if the system used boiling water and
steam to push the water up and over the top into the tank it was
called ‘slugging.’ I’ve used both, and the first method
takes much longer to heat up. – Howard
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Harry Matthews is a retired electronic engineer and gas engine
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