This past month’s mail brought in a couple of letters
critical of the Reflector’s comments on engine operation at
shows back in the December, 1987 issue. The criticism seems to be
back on our comments regarding smoke and exhaust noise, with one
writer asking the Reflector whether we were running an engine show
or a Sunday School picnic?
Ye olde Reflector takes the blame here for not stating our case
as well as we might have in the first place, so : let’s put it
as clearly and succinctly as possible. Let’s set up a little
scenario-Here’s some big, scruffy old engine, barely able to
run, but still managing to wheeze its way along, albeit with
considerable soot, smoke, and oil. Now this grand old nondescript
engine has no exhaust pipe whatever, and the gaping hole in the
side of the cylinder head is aimed right at the aisle way where the
spectators walk by. Along comes a citified pair, overwhelmed by
what they see, and having no idea at all of what they are seeing,
or what will come next. This pair is dressed to the hilt, she in
her $250 designer creation, he in his $400 suit straight from Hong
Kong or wherever. Just as they walk by the old nondescript,
smoke-belching, oil-spewing engine she gives out a bang, with our
citified couple catching the full charge of oil and soot. After the
smoke clears, chances are fairly good that somebody will be buying
this couple some new (and high-priced) clothes. Worst of all, this
couple, and probably most of their friends, will never again have
anything to do with a gas engine show.
While written as a ‘worst case’ scenario, the Reflector
is sure that this has happened more than once at the steam and gas
engine show. The point is this-and we probably did not state our
case in sufficiently rigorous terms-a simple dose of common sense
could eliminate, or at least minimize, these occurrences.
As we stated previously, a few exhibitors seem to relish the
assembly of so-called resonators to the exhaust, making it even
louder than it ordinarily is. Now that’s fine for a while, but
it gets tiresome after listening to it for a show of 4 or 5 days.
The same thing holds true for some of the two-cycle engines using
oil in the fuel. Either through actual intent or through their own
ignorance, some exhibitors seem to think more is better. Many show
veterans can recall seeing such exhibitors with a whole litter of
these ‘little smokers’ all doing their stuff and creating
an immense cloud of white smoke.
The Reflector doesn’t by any means hold to the idea that our
old engines should sit around at a show idle, but in fact, the
opposite is true! We think that exhibitors should have their
engines running every day. But again, we stand in defense of our
previous statements-we don’t think it shows any professionalism
in our hobby to choke spectators and other exhibitors with clouds
of dense smoke that are completely unnecessary. Likewise, we can
see no evidence of common sense in placing an engine’s exhaust
so that it blows right out into the spectators or other exhibitors.
If not the problem of smoke and oil, then consider that a youngster
or oldster standing at eye level with the exhaust could be gravely
injured by a piece of flying carbon coming at an eye with dynamite
force! Once again we state our case… be careful! Be careful not
just for yourself, but be careful for others. Care, courtesy, and
common sense- the three C’s will go a long’ way toward
making our hobby even better than it is today!
23/4/1Q. I’m new to the gas engine hobby
and would like to know the color of the following engines: Empire,
by Empire Cream Separator Co.; Hired Man, by Associated
Manufacturers; and Perkins Windmill Co., Model H. Also need
information and some dimensions for an Aeromotor pumping
engine-mine is missing some parts. Paul W. Hartman, Route 2, Box
236, Rocky Fork Road, Smyrna, Tennessee 37167.
A. We have DuPont 93-2622-H listed for
Associated but do not have definite numbers for the other engines
requested.
23/4/2Q. John Preston, 2455 Hickory Lawn,
Rochester, Michigan, 48063, asks: I am going to restore a Cushman
2-cycle engine, Model 2, Type A, ? HP. What is, a) the correct
color; b) correct gas tank; c) type of mounting; d) what it was
used on; e) the year made. See adjacent photo.
A. In response to a) we assume that it was
either black or the usual Cushman green, DuPont 93-62713-H. b) and
c) we cannot answer; d) probably a washing machine, and e) probably
in the 1930’s.
23/4/3Q. Can anyone supply information on this
Model A Ford conversion tractor. The name ‘Peru’ is cast
into the front and rear wheel hubs. Any information at all on the
firm building this conversion will be greatly appreciated. (See
photo). Thomas R. Evans, American Truck Historical Society, P.O.
Box 59200, Birmingham, Alabama, 35259.
A. Our records, etc. show nothing on
‘Peru’ but perhaps one of our readers has heard of this
company.
23/4/4Q. We need help concerning a large
Charter engine we have acquired. It has a 10
1/2 x 18 inch bore and stroke. First of all,
what is the proper color? We have found traces of what appears to
be a very dark gray or a bluish black similar to a weathered
Fairbanks-Morse color. We also need information on how the fuel was
delivered to the air intake-it seems there might be something
missing here. Ignition is low tension with a large Webster magneto.
Information on starting is also needed. Our engine resembles the
one on lower left hand corner, page 95 of American Gas Engines. Any
information or help will be appreciated. Rich and Wayne Krumm,
13,075 West Watson Road, Sunset Hill, Missouri, 63127.
A. We’ve only seen a couple of Charter
engines, and they were a dark gray color-we do not have a color
match listed. Some photos would be helpful in determining what
might be needed for the carburetion. One of our readers might be
able to determine this after studying the photos. Since a Webster
magneto is used, the engine was probably started as follows: Prime
the engine with gasoline, and leaving priming cup open and
decompression lever engaged, pull the engine through one complete
cycle, stopping the flywheels just past the point where the magneto
trips. Taking the engine through a cycle will help to vaporize the
priming fuel. Cock the trip handle on the Webster magneto. Now roll
the flywheels back nearly to the outside dead center. Roll it
forward as quickly as possible, and when it is well ahead with the
charge fairly compressed, trip the starting handle on the magneto,
and the engine should fire. This procedure will no doubt require
some fine tuning to get consistent results, and as we try to
emphasize constantly, use care in all these procedures.
23/4/5Q. Recently I came into this gas engine
business quite by accident, but boy did I ever get hooked! The
engine in the photo is my first, and it runs pretty good, but I
need to know more about it. I am told it is either an Economy or a
Hercules, but would like to know for sure if possible. Is there a
particular type of paint or primer that works best? I have a lot to
learn about this hobby, but sure would appreciate any help. Gerald
L. Phillips, 2143 Thomas, Berkley, Michigan, 48072.
A. We believe your engine to be a Hercules, and
as such, it should be finished with Rustoleum #1382 Forest Green.
We suggest buying the finish from a professional paint dealer who
can make the proper recommendations on priming and sealing
metal.
23/4/6Q. I have an Avery ‘A’ tractor
and need to know where to find the serial number, plus the proper
number for the red finish enamel. Would also like to find manuals
or photocopies for same, plus production figures, and other data on
these tractors. Any help will be appreciated. Dick Golden, RR 1,
Box 88, Armington, Illinois, 61721.
A. We can’t give you any data on this
model, but since there are quite a few requests for the late model
Avery tractors, perhaps one of our readers knowledgeable on the
subject would like to grace the pages of GEM with an in-depth look
at this company.
23/4/7Q. See photos 23/4/7A and B illustrating
a Toro engine and a small burr mill. Can anyone supply information
on this engine or identify the make of the mill? Clair Bahrenfuse,
Rt 2, Box 192, Kellogg, Iowa, 50135.
A. The Reflector draws a blank here… we were
previously unaware of a Toro engine of this design!
23/4/8Q. Sometime ago I acquired this little
engines it is said to have been used on a small yard railcar at a
manufacturing plant in Detroit. The engine is of two-cycle design
with a Tillitson carburetor. A single 12-inch flywheel is used. Any
information will be appreciated. Donald ). Trosper, 572 Margaret
Dr., Chesapeake, Virginia, 23322.
A. We’re convinced this was originally a
railroad handcar engine, but we are not sure it was built by
Fairmont, one of the largest builders of this special style.
Perhaps one of our readers can provide a positive ID on this
engine.
23/4/9Q. I recently obtained a Friend engine by
Friend Mfg. Company, Gasport, New York. Did Friend build a large
number of these engines? Would like to hear from anyone with any
information on them. Dave Banas, 663 Alpine Drive, Southbridge, MA
01550-3959.
A. Since the vast majority of the Friend
engines were built specifically for the Friend orchard and vineyard
spraying outfits, it would not seem that a great number were built,
although ‘quantity built’ when it comes to gas engines is a
subjective term. As an example, we have it on good authority that
only a handful of engines were built by Angola Engine Company at
Angola, Indiana even though the tone and tenor of their magazine
advertising would lead the reader to believe that this must have
been one of the industry biggies back around 1910. Mr. Banas also
sent us a copy of a letter which appears in the next caption:
23/4/10Dave Banas sends us a photocopy of a
communication from Mr. George L. Caddick, Hercules Mfg. Co., Box
497, Henderson, KY 42420. Mr. Caddick states that the Jaeger
engines manufactured by Hercules should be painted similar to
DuPont Dulux 5183 DH medium blue. This information should be
helpful to Jaeger engine owners having the model built by
Hercules.
23/4/11Q. Dave Lumsden, HC 61, Box 4085, Cle
Elum, WA 98922 sends along a photo of his Bates 45 crawler with a
Waukesha 4-cylinder engine. Dave would like to hear form other
Bates owners, and get any information possible on restoration,
along with the proper color scheme of same.
23/4/12Q. I just bought a Lister vertical
engine, 5 horsepower, and said to be a 1907 model. Can you supply
me with any addresses where I might get information on this engine.
Mike Comeau, PO Box 398, Derby Line, VT 05829.
A. We can’t tell you where to write, but
since GEM travels extensively overseas, we are hopeful that some of
our overseas readers might be able to help you. However, a photo or
nameplate information would be most helpful.
23/4/13Q. In the October, 1987 GEM die
recommendation was made that stationary engines used for display
purposes should be timed to fire on dead center. I would like to
point out that not all engines will run well, or may not run at all
when timed to fire on dead center because these engines were
designed and built to fire well before dead center.
I have a 2 HP Waterloo Boy Type H engine with a Wizard magneto
which is an example of this. This engine will not run well unless
its timing is set so that in the advanced position, ignition occurs
at about 45 degrees before dead center, otherwise the engine
coughs, wheezes, and has no power. I learned this by trial and
error, through which I discovered that the saw cut mark on the
pushrod of this engine corresponds to 45 degrees before dead
center. The reprint of the owners manual which we got from the John
Deere archives also states to the effect that the timing should be
set so that the engine fires at 45 degrees before dead center in
the advanced position. Michael Bond, 3594 Test Road, Richmond, IN
47374.
A. In the case of the Waterloo Boy engine with
the peculiar knee-joint igniter trip mechanism, the timing mark
might well have to be somewhat ahead of dead center when making the
adjustment, due to the considerable lag time required for all of
this linkage to do its duty. This was one of the major problems
with oscillating low tension magnetos-even the best of them did not
work well after about 1,000 rpm, since there was not enough time
for things to happen between firing times. In the case of the
Waterloo Boy, we would hazard a guess that the 45 degree advance
probably melts to 20 or 25 degrees, perhaps even less than that
when the engine is running at say 500 rpm. The more linkage
involved, the longer it takes to complete the cycle of events, and
when normal wear with loose joints intervenes, that throws the
entire sequence out of kilter.
23/4/14Q. I would appreciate some opinions in
regard to reducing the size of the exhaust outlet in order to
facilitate the use of a certain muffler. Might this cause serious
damage to the engine? I sometimes use a modern tractor muffler or
even a straight pipe so that cold air does not hit the valves when
the engine is stopped, causing them to warp. Any advice will be
appreciated. Syl Henry, 1027 Harding Street, Janesville, Wisconsin,
53545.
A. Mr. Henry brings up some excellent points.
Personally, we don’t believe that reducing the muffler by a
single pipe size, say from 1? to 1? inch pipe is going to make a
whole lot of difference, especially when the engine is not working
under a load. One effect of throttling the exhaust will be the
tendency to retain heat, and of course, that’s not good. In
fact, replacing a conventional muffler with a vertical straight
pipe will reduce the backpressure enough so that a hit-and-miss
engine will not boil nearly so soon as with a muffler in place. Too
great a restriction on the exhaust passage can also create problems
on the idle strokes, particularly if the engine is not equipped
with an intake valve lock. The restricted passage can create enough
negative pressure within the cylinder that the intake valve will
flutter, thus wasting fuel. We totally agree with Mr. Henry that in
the absence of the original muffler at least a vertical straight
pipe should be installed. This diverts the exhaust blast away from
the engine and away from spectators, while at the same time
preventing cold air from reaching the very hot exhaust passages and
valves.
23/4/15Carey D. Wood, Mitchell, Indiana 47446
would like to hear from anyone with a 25 HP Superior sideshaft
engine. He needs help with running it on LP-gas. Mr. Wood may also
be contacted at 812-849-5848 between 8AM and 2PM only on
weekdays.
23/4/16Q. Our 1905, 3 HP International upright
engine (as on page 244 of American Gas Engines) has serial No. 1953
with an ‘E’ stamped on beneath the serial number. What does
this designate? Was there any striping on this engine? Also, what
is the color and year built for a Dempster 1? HP, s/n 7828? Did it
have any striping? Don Stier, 3706 E 22, Spokane, Washington,
99223.
A. The ‘E’ suffix probably indicates
the type of mounting, i.e., skids, stationary, portable, etc. We
believe even the very early IHC verticals had at least some
striping, but the exact style seemed to vary with the person
applying the paint, so giving a definite answer is rather
difficult. We have no age data on Dempster, but our records show
them to be comparable to DuPont 93-046 green.
23/4/17Q. We recently acquired this Delco-Light
four-cylinder engine. It is air-cooled, using copper fins attached
to the outside of the cylinder walls. The total length is 24
inches. Unfortunately, the generator is missing. The engine is
quite similar to the ‘copper-cooled’ Chevrolet of the early
1920’s. I don’t think the engine was an experimental model
since there are several instructions cast into both the inside and
outside of the aluminum valve cover. The generator, carburetor, and
most of the fuel system is missing. Otherwise it is in good
condition. Any help in further identification or, any other
information will be greatly appreciated. H. W. Ellison, 1635 Ford
Court, Grosse Pointe Woods, Michigan 48236.
A. Our reaction is probably similar to your
first reaction: I never knew that Delco built an engine that looked
like that! Beyond that, we hope that someone in engine land can
shed some light on this interesting little engine.
23/4/18Q. Can you supply the proper paint color
for an R&V Triumph Line engine. We thought it to be John Deere
Green, but have found some paint of a much darker shade. Marcus
Comes, 19506 Kemple Drive, Bend, Oregon 97702
A. We have DuPont 93-5316 listed as a
comparable color match.
23/4/19Q. Can you supply the proper color for a
1911 Waterloo Boy gas engine? Louis Feller, 7405 Beebe Road,
Lynden, Washington 98264.
A. Our listing shows DuPont 93-046 green as a
comparable color.
23/4/20Q. Can anyone supply the proper color
for a Taylor Vacuum engine, also year built? Keith Johnson, RR 1,
Box 112, Hector, Minnesota 55342.
A. We have no color number for the Taylor. It
is doubtful that any production records are available.
23/4/21Q. Regarding a Gray Model S,4 or 6 HP
marine engine, s/n 14587. Can anyone tell me the year built and
original color scheme? Is there a successor to Gray Engine Company
that might have some information? J. A. Kovacs, 789 Upland Ave.,
Campbell River, B.C. V9W 2A8 Canada.
A. Gray appears to have specialized in marine
engines after 1920, but we have no information regarding their
lineage after that time.
23/4/22Q. I have a 6 HP McCormick-Deering
engine, s/n CW19916, Pat. No. 1,509,380. Can you tell me the year
built? Also, the wooden parts on the wagon have been removed, so 1
would like to correspond with anyone having the original
dimensions. All letters will be answered. Glenn Burroughs, 317
Hunting Lane, Goode, Virginia, 24556.
A. Your engine was built in 1930. We presume
some of our readers might have one of these engines on its original
truck mounting and would supply you with the needed dimensions.
23/4/23Russell Haines, Rt 14, Box 369A,
Tallahassee, Florida 32304 would like information on a 2V4 HP Smyth
Bros, engine. Call collect after 7 p.m., 904/576-5815.
23/4/24Paul Reno, Oakland, Colorado favors us
with a photo of a 2-horse treadmill built in 1859 by E. Whitman
Agricultural Works, Auburn, Maine. Mr. Reno couples this machine to
a Daniel Best Grain Cleaner built in 1870. This treadmill is
missing the original wood transport wheels, so I would like to hear
from anyone who knows where I might inquire in this regard.
23/4/25Q. Can you supply color schemes for: 1)
Standard Twin garden tractor; 2) Viking garden tractor; 3) Shaw
Do-All tractor; and 4) McCormick-Deering 10-20 tractor. Hoy Dove,
Jr., RR 1, Box 149-B, Mathias, WV 26812.
A. Only for the 10-20 can we tell you the
scheme-either DuPont 98620 Gray or 6923 Gray, with IHC red on the
wheels.
23/4/26Q. A friend recently found a Leader
tractor with an Auburn Ohio factory address. All other Leader
tractors we have seen use the Chagrin Falls, Ohio address. Which
was first? Also, are the serial numbers stamped in the dash on the
Leader tractors? Wm. Flowers, RR 1, Box 332, Adena, Ohio 43901.
A. Answers to this question will have to come
from somebody besides the Reflector-we never before knew that
Leader built anything at Auburn.
23/4/27Q. I have a Standard Twin garden
tractor, s/n 340357. Does the prefix mean it was a 1934 model?
Also, are there any old Standard dealers left with parts for these
garden tractors? Frank Warburton, P.O. Box 701, Newtown,
Connecticut, 06470.
A. The theory you suggest regarding the prefix
might indeed be correct- we don’t know. Likewise, we
haven’t heard of anyone with N. O. S. parts for the Standard
Twin.
23/4/28Q. Fred A. Kurtz, Rt 2, Box 276, River
Fails, Wisconsin 54022, follows with a similar request on a
Standard garden tractor. Mr. Kurtz needs to find engine parts for
the two-cylinder engine. The number is 401C6019.
23/4/29Q. What is the year built for a Stover
engine s/n TB260561? Arthur J. Brochu Jr., Hazelton Rd, Rowe, MA
01367.
A. Your engine was built March 9, 1939.
23/4/30Q. On page 20 of the October 1987 GEM,
you make mention of the Detroit engines. My engine has a nameplate
(see photo) with the numbers 2 92 stamped into it. Could this be
the month and year of production? Also on page 130 of American Gas
Engines it is stated that there was very little change in designs
over the years. Yet, to look at the one on page 130 compared with
the one from Sweden referred to above, plus my engine in the photo,
they are all different. The barrel on mine is not on the wrong way;
the stud pattern and casting shape won’t permit it and the
exhaust and carby to line up as per the Sweden one. The one on page
130 of American Gas Engines is quite different again. Ian Matthews,
3 Kaoriki Court, Condon, 4815, Queensland, Australia.
A. Apparently the Detroit engines were exported
from the United States in somewhat larger numbers than has been
previously thought. This would account for some of them landing in
Sweden, and still others in Australia. We greatly doubt that the
numbers stamped into the nameplate have any significance regarding
the year built. So far as the obvious differences between the three
different examples pointed out above, we have no idea of the reason
for these derivations.
23/4/31Q. Can anyone supply information as to
when New Holland built the mill like the one in this photo? This
one is a No. 6 mill with 6 inch burrs, a 13 inch flywheel, and
built by New Holland Machine Co., New Holland, PA. Any information
will be appreciated. Ray Scott, 851 3rd St. NW, Valley City, ND
58072.
A. We would guess these mills to have been
built in the early 1900’s, and perhaps earlier. New Holland
must have built a considerable number of them, since they
occasionally appear at various places in the Midwestern states, a
long way from New Holland, Pennsylvania. Possibly the company might
be able to give some more specific information.
23/4/32Mr. and Mrs. Ralph M. Olds, Box 355,
Douglas, WY 82633 are looking for information on restoring a 25-50
Avery tractor and an Alamo 6 HP gas engine. Any information will be
appreciated.
23/4/33Q. Can you identify this engine? (see
photo). The tag reads: Engine #303963; RPM 550; H. P. 2GH. The
original color appears to have been a greenish blue. It was hooked
up to a 2 cylinder Hardie water pump. W. O. Bailey, 1160 E.
Columbus St., Martinsville, IN 46151.
A. From the color and general appearance, we
would surmise this to be an ARCO engine as sold by Hardie Mfg. Co.,
primarily for use with their orchard sprayers. This particular one
was probably built by Hercules.
23/4/34In the April, 1987 issue of GEM there is
a picture of this engine (see photo) before restoration. It is all
original, even down to the spark coil. I had lots of letters from
other collectors on restoring this engine and wish to publicly
thank everyone who wrote. The engine came 30 miles from home and
was used by an elderly gentleman to run his feed grinder. Charles
Riley, 5670 Delisle &. Fourman Rd., Arcanum, OH 45304.
23/4/35R. M. Gates, Bender Implement Co.,
Somerset, PA 15501, is restoring a McCormick-Deering Ideal Reaper
as built from 1907-1935. In this process they need to know the
color scheme of the parts so as to make the restoration
historically accurate. Since the reaper is in mint condition except
for a new paint job, any information would be greatly
appreciated.
