REFLECTIONS-2

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FBM-2
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FBM-1
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24/1/36
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24/3/C Mention The American Thresherman Shows
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24/3/A
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24/3/B

READERS WRITE

24/1/69 Stover engines

In Mr. Wendel’s answer he has apparently set aside the
historic usage of foundry casting dates with the notion that the
9-10-23 in the casting represents the date the casting pattern was
made. In the 53 years I have been collecting and restoring antique
machinery and engines I have never heard anyone or read any
document which implies or states that such markings represent the
date a pattern was made. Mr. Wendel apparently has an insight into
these matters that transcends us mere mortals.

My limited insight in these matters suggests the 9-10-23 is the
casting date used by foundries to insure castings don’t get
mixed up in the curing process used to relieve stresses in green
castings. In the engine in question it appears some six months
elapsed between casting and machining. Depending on the nature of
the casting, the curing process typically extended from 90 days to
several years storage outside hence the seeming piles of rusting
junk outside manufacturer’s plants. Richard A. Day, Rt. 2,
Box 44, Leonardtown, MD 20650.

A. The Reflector at one time had five different
Stover ‘K’ engine models, all with the same 9-10-23 date in
the main frame casting. Curiously, however, the serial numbers
indicated that these engines were built over a period ranging from
1924 to 1935. Ye olde Reflector doesn’t have any ‘greater
insight into these things’ than anyone else, but to suggest
that an engine built in 1935 was cast already in 1923 doesn’t
make sense. This is especially true with Stover we would think,
because the company had its share of financial troubles, and it
doesn’t seem likely that they left anything in the curing yard
any longer than necessary.

We’re not attempting to peddle misinformation in wholesale
lots- and in the case of the above mentioned engine, we’re
going with the facts as we have them. Beyond this, we maintain that
using the date in the casting is inaccurate since it does not
necessarily reflect the manufacturing date. To settle on a single
point of criteria would be like saying that all IHC Famous vertical
engines were built in 1905 because that year is cast on the engine.
Both assumptions would be erroneous.

24/1/11 United States engine

The United States engine was manufactured by Brownwall Engine
& Pulley Company of Holland, Michigan. The years that
Brownwall, under various names, made engines was 1911 through the
late 1920’s. This unit was probably made in Brownwall’s
heyday of about 1920-1923. You will note it is the characteristic
headless design, but in a kerosene version.

I have a number of United States-/Brownwall engines and am
working on an article for GEM regarding all the information I have
collected on them. So far I have logged over 40 units made by
Brownwall. The unit pictured probably used a Webster Tri-Polar
magneto. The odd routing of the exhaust goes through an intake
pre-heater arrangement. The unit should also have a crank cover
that is very thorough in covering the crankshaft area. The color
was literally a battleship gray.

I have only seen one or two other kerosene models and feel Mr.
Hoffman is very lucky to own one!

The Bellows Falls, Vermont area, which is where the unit was
sold from, is my hometown area. Bart Cushing, P.O. Box 44,
Gilsum, NH 03448.

24/1/5 Engine

This engine was built by Notre Dame students in 1930. They made
the wood patterns, the castings, and did the machining. I have
engine No. 5 and know of engine No. 2 in Florida. Engine numbers
are stamped on most parts and were the student’s tool check
number.

Tom Goepfrich, 1191 E. 900 N., Ossian, IN 46777.

24/1/36 Engine

In reference to this engine, see a photo of my disassembled
engine. It is a Sattley from Montgomery Ward. The crankcase is
casting number AK 219, and all other parts use the AK prefix. I
understand this engine is not very common and is very
collectible.

 The engine in the photo is owned by Dale Fye of
Shelton, Washington. Don Green, P.O. Box 294, Grape-view, WA
98546.

23/12/20 Jacobson Sturdy Jack

Some years ago I acquired a 1 Vi HP Jacobson Sturdy Jack with
battery ignition. The engine was in very bad shape, but I am now
getting it restored. This engine was painted red. I believe they
are rather scarce. James B. Romans, 9111 Louis Avenue, Silver
Spring, MD 20910.

23/10/26 National Transit engine

The engine in the photograph was built by National Transit
Company at Oil City, Pennsylvania. This interesting engine is
believed to have been made only in one size, and was almost
invariably used to belt-drive a pump jack, also built by National
Transit. These outfits were employed to pump either a single oil
well or to periodically pump production-choking brackish water out
of a single gas well.

This one very common, but now relatively rare engine was
apparently the second in a series of three vertical two-cycle
engines produced by National Transit over a 30 year period. The
first series bore an uncanny resemblance to a vertical steam engine
and was introduced during the mid 1890’s. The second series, of
which Mr. Schwartz’s engine is an example, used a governor very
similar to that of the first series, but was otherwise quite
different. This design is quite reminiscent of other designs common
around 1910 when this model was probably introduced.

The third series was similar in design to the 4-cycle
‘Little Hummer’ engine shown on page 331 of American Gas
Engines. Observed serial numbers all seem to fall in the 200-300
range, indicating that they were probably numbered in a series
separate from other National Transit products.

For further information on this and other delightful National
Transit engines, I invite Mr. Schwartz and anyone else interested
to visit the Cool spring Power Museum in Cool spring, Pennsylvania.
This museum has twelve National Transit engines on display,
including seven which run on a regular basis. Clark Colby, Cool
spring Power Museum, R.D. 1, Box 199A, Greensburg, PA
15601.

Webster Magneto Brackets

Kindly add 303 J 90 to the list in the December, 1986 GEM. This
is for the 30 HP Turner Simplicity engine.

Paint Colors

I had color chips from a 1 HP Springfield engine analyzed and
Dulux 93-143-H Maroon is a perfect match.

Also I had the color for a Lauson-Lawton engine analyzed and
Rustoleum Forest Green matches. However, they have replaced it with
Hunter Green which is just slightly darker. The same color matches
the Taylor Vacuum engines.

The correct color for the Bicknell engines made at Janesville,
Wisconsin is a dark blue comparable to Dulux 93-81501.

23/11/11 Simplicity engines

This is a very late Simplicity, probably of the early
1920’s. The correct color for these engines is O.D. Green or
Army green.

The above items were all submitted by D. Kedinger, 2277
Highway 103, Oakfield, WI 53065-9730.

23/12/17 Carburetor floats

I have used the resin that comes in a fiberglass patching kit.
Mix it up like you would to patch, except you do not need the
cloth. It really works good. I used it on a float for a 15-30 IHC
three years ago and it is still okay. The screws in the lever that
hold it to the cork were not good, but this stuff held it together.
W.E. Neal, 613 8th Ave., Charles City, IA 50616.

On Welcoming Newcomers

I especially appreciated your ‘Closing Word’ in the
December issue of GEM. We must be sensitive to the newcomers in
this hobby. The real young are very scarce in our area, probably
because of the escalating cost of our hobby, but if it is to
continue, we must pass information and encouragement along, no
matter how trivial it seems to us. The bottom line is to be patient
with the young people.

We have a question as to the Standard Twin garden tractors. Does
anyone know the years of manufacture for these units? The serial
number we have is 37C2171. It has rubber tires on spoked rims. Most
units I have seen prior to this one were all on solid iron rims. I
assume this one is probably a later one built. Would like to hear
from anyone about this garden tractor.

John K. Kreider, 327A East Main, New Holland, PA
17557.

Canadian Fairbanks-Morse

In response to a question from Philip Van Wyk (Nov 88 GEM) about
the Canadian Fairbanks-Morse ‘Z’ engine:

See photos FBM-1 and FBM-2 of my 3 HP Canadian FBM ‘Z’
engine, s/n C26540. It has the separate cast hopper, spark plug on
top of head, exhaust out the side opposite the governor, starting
reservoir carburetor, throttling governor operation, all indicative
of the 1919-25 USA production ‘ZA’ models. However, the
brass plate states ‘Toronto, Ont.’ as the factory, with
patent dates of Feb. 5, 1918; Dec. 25, 1917; and April 2, 1918. The
crankshaft has the serial number stamped on one end.

I would like to hear from other owners of Canadian
Fairbanks-Morse engines in hopes of establishing a registry, and
perhaps being able to correlate a serial number/date for these
engines.

Morrie Robinson, 1087 Potts Rd-Day Creek, Sedro Woolley, WA
98284.

24/1/28 Stone buhr mills

Several letters came in on stone mills, including one fom
Barry Snider, P.O. Box 338, Fairfield, TX 75840 and Joseph
Lisaius, 116 Orton Road, West Caldwell, NJ.

Mr. Snider sent along some photocopy material on the Meadows
mills, noting that these are still being built by Meadows Mills
Company, North Wilkesboro, NC.

Mr. Lisaius comments that Eric Sloane did a very complete
article on the dressing of mill stones by traveling journeymen in
one of his books. One comment was of particular interest:

Examine the forearms of the journeyman dresser. Due to the
chipping of the dressing chisel, particles of steel would be driven
into the skin and would be quite visible if this professional had
been at it for some length of time. Sloane also noted that during
the shift from millstones to steel cutters, particles of millstones
would enter the flour and eventually accelerate the wearing down of
the teeth.

(We hope Mr. Lisaius can supply the title of the above mentioned
book, and its publisher-Ed.)

24/1/17 Krahling’s engine

Several letters came in on this one, and Earl reports that he
got quite a number of letters, all of which were appreciated. The
engine of this query is now established to be a ? HP DeLaval Junior
engine. It was designed to run a cream separator, and could pull a
vacuum pump or a small generator. They were sold around 1934.

Junkers diesel engines

The Reflector asked for information regarding a Junkers opposed
piston diesel engine, and we got several letters and phone calls in
this regard. However, most of the replies had to do with the
Junkers aircraft engines rather than this specific single cylinder,
12.5 HP model. All of the information we received was greatly
appreciated, as it is a lot more than we had prior to our
query.

This particular opposed piston design starts incredibly easy,
and we have started it with one pull of the crank with the air
temperature at 45 degrees! I’ll grant it ran pretty rough for a
couple of minutes, but by then it had warmed sufficiently to .
settle down.

Thanks to everyone who responded!

24/1/64 Letz mills

Cobey Company, Div. of Harsco, took over Letz in 1968 and became
Cobey-Letz Company. Their address was Gallon, OH 44833. Their plant
at 800 East North St., Crown Point, IN 46307.

24/1/23 F-30 cane tractors

There are many references in an  F-30 parts catalog to
tractors s/n 30176 and up. I don’t think you could call any
narrow front wheels (row-crop) tractor a cane tractor. Didn’t
all cane tractors have a wide-front?

The above two comments from: Gordon Rice Equipment Inc., P.O.
Box 687, Clarion, PA 16214.

You’re correct-cane tractors used a wide-front axle. We do
not have an F-30 parts book showing the expanded view of the F-30
cane tractor.

Regarding the remaining comments of this section, we thank Dick
Hamp, 1772 Conrad Avenue, San Jose, CA 95124 for sending a letter
and information:

23/12/11 General engine

Regarding the General Model D engines, I have a data sheet on
them, but have never seen one of these high quality engines. I
would say they are quite rare.

24/1/9 Wiscona Pep

These engines were built at least until 1921. It appears that
there were no flyweights in the flywheel for the governor, so they
must have been in the timing gear or related parts. I have seen
several Pep motors and I have the remains of one, and they all have
water hoppers shaped like the one in the photo of 24/1/9. These
engines had two fuel tanks-one for gasoline and the other for
kerosene. If you have seen one with a different shaped hopper, I
would like to see a photo of it.

24/1/30 Hercules

The letters after the horsepower rating define the type of
engine. For instance, a 1929 price list shows the 1? XK to be a
kerosene model with half base and wood skids. The XI is gasoline,
half base, and wood skids, and so on.

24/1/53 Magneto

The low tension magneto pictured in 24/1/53 is a Wizard Type A-l
built by Hercules Electrical Company, Indianapolis, Indiana.

24/1/61 Standard gas engine

This engine was built by Standard Gas Engine Company. Their main
office and works was located at 23rd Avenue Station in Oakland,
California, and the sales room was at 436 Market Street in San
Francisco. Most of these engines were for marine use.

24/1/61B Engine

This is a Witte diesel engine of about 1950’s or 1960’s
vintage.

24/1/69 Stover engines

The 9-10-23 date cast into the block on the Stover engine is the
date the block was cast. After the blocks were cast, they were set
outside to age for 6 to 12 months. I got this information from the
late Lester Roos.

Mr. Hamp supplies information for GEM readers on a regular
basis. His painstaking research is a great help to us all. Thanks
Dick!

CLOSING WORD

In searching through old magazines, we found several interesting
illustrations in the American Thresherman. Photo 24/3/A illustrates
the ‘New Polo’ engine by General Mfg. Co. at Elk-hart,
Indiana. Inverted vertical engines are unusual in themselves, but
note that this one is air-cooled as well. Are any of these engines
still in existence?

Photo 24/3/B shows a nice looking side shaft model from
Hydraulic Press Mfg. Company of Mt. Gilead, Ohio. While this one
certainly resembles the Ohio built at Sandusky, we are wondering
whether any such engines are around that bear the nameplate of
Hydraulic Press Company? This advertisement appeared in the March,
1904 issue of American Thresherman.

Finally, 24/3/C from the June, 1904 American Thresherman shows a
Waterbus Improved Gasoline Traction Engine. Although Waterbus is
well remembered for steam fire engines, little is known about their
activities as tractor builders. This particular venture appears to
have been short-lived, and very possibly never got past a few
prototype models, of which this might be an example. So far as we
know, there are no Waterbus tractors in existence, but if there
are, we’ll be happy to know about it!


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