BADGER HORIZONTAL ENGINE.
ARTHUR WEGNER, Route 3, Box 122, Baraboo, Wisconsin 53913 writes: 'Have been getting the G.E.M. from the very first issue to date and wish it came more often -enjoy the magazine very much.
Great power, economy and splendid design.
The picture I use on my stationery and envelopes is of a very old engine that I obtained from a lady that sold me the page from an old blacksmith catalogue from back around the turn of the century. There was no manufacturer's name listed. The rocker arm and governor are reversed on a picture of an early C. P. & J. Lauson picture that I have seen. Otherwise, the engine looks the same. So that is what I think it must be, unless it was a forerunner to the C. P. & J. Lauson. The engine was built in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I had an uncle try to find out about it, but there aren't any records to be found about the C. P. & J. Lauson Company available.' (Any of you fellows know anything about this? I'm sure Arthur would like to hear any added data you may have.)
Our best wishes to a newly formed organization-Schiermeier-Hoefelmann Threshing Association, Inc. (And Other Shenanigans) Antique Auto & Machinery Show. They will have their first presentation July 30, 31 at St. Paul's Lutheran Park, New Melle, Missouri where they expect to see many of their friends who are interested in the same hobby. This organization is non-profit. (See Coming Events Ad).
DECKER SCHUCH, 2782 N. 71st Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53210 has a nice comment to pep us all up: 'Kindly renew my subscription. The day the magazine arives, all other activities are shelved until its been read from cover to cover.' (Thanks Decker-glad you enjoy it.)
L. H. LUCKADO, 9201 Guilford Road, R. F. D., Box 152, Jessup, Maryland 20784 wrote this letter in answer to Ervin Marten who had a letter in March-April G.E.M. 1977, page 15:
Saw your letter in Gas Engine Magazine and you asked about flash tube boiler used in automobiles.
I had the pleasure of seeing an old Stanley maybe 1915, steamer boiler and condenser torn apart; now it makes me sick, for I wish I had it.
The boiler was two crown sheets about 1/4' thick or steel circle 8' with holes for tubes with a band of 3/8' steel rivet on to crown sheets circleand it had brass or copper tubes about 6' long 1/4' diameter as many as could get in the 18' circle.
Under this set a flat lamp-like kerosene burner as used in a stove and just under this set another boiler which they called the condenser and were said to be interchangable; around these were layers of asbestos and short length of piano wire and more of each.
Tests claim you could not blow up this boiler or condenser only make leaks and be burned from the steam and hot water.
The Curtis brothers held the patent on this boiler and condenser and stated was licensed for air use.
I was told the Curtis brothers developed the boiler and condenser and turbin for the Wright brothers but proved too heavy, so they leased their patent right to the turbine to General Electric and modified the boiler for steam cars.
They also told me one of the White boys and one of the Stanley brothers decided to have a race one Sunday afternoon and they spinned the solid tires for a solid city block and set a new speed record over 100 miles per hour, but Stanley lost his nerve and closed his throttle and lost the race to White, but White's boiler had a chrome sheet in it and the water got down off and when it slowed up, his boiler exploded and blew him to Heaven as he was sitting over top of the boiler.
The other White brother went to building White gas trucks and Stanley kept improving his car till 1934 and could get up steam in an elec. AUX (Boiler) generators in two minutes and standard oil bought out patent rights as they got 30 miles to a gallon of kerosene.
Thought this story, as was told to me as a boy of 14, might interest you.
EARL SHEESLEY, 261 Corner Ketch Road, Downingtown, Pennsylvania 19335 tells us: 'I own a (Rockford Engine Works) 8 HP, side shaft, hopper-cooled engine and need some information for restoration. I would like to enter intocorrespondence with anyone who owns a similar engine. If they don't like to write letters, just drop me a card with the phone number and I'll call.' (There you are-that makes it easy, Fellas!)
A cheery note from a new subscriber, WALTER NIELAND, Route 2, Carroll, Iowa 51401: 'I am subscribing to your G.E.M. I read several old issues and enjoyed them. I am only beginning to collect old engines. I have been a life-long farmer and have some old machines. I have owned engines from time to time, but sold all of them long years ago. I am 61 now and am as keen on machines as ever. If I can't get something to run, it never will. I expect to pick up a few engines for entertainment for my retirement next year and the many years to Then came this bit of limerick -
'A crabby old fellow named Wall Folks said he wasn't worth his salt, But when they'd walked in his shoes, They shared his own views And agreed it wasn't his fault!'
You know there's more depth in that than you see the first reading-Walt says he can write these any time, so maybe he'll send us along some more verses.
A thank you note and a bit of chatting from JACK BULLOCK, 5296 Golden Road, Pleasanton, California 94566: 'Thank you for your help. Through an article in a 1972 issue of your magazine I found the name of Lester Roos, of Geneseo, Ilinois who has a parts list and manual for my engine. Also he gave me the name of a man in Illinois for parts.
My engine was shipped on January 9, 1940 to Gilson Bros. in Fredonia, Wisconsin. As it has turned out, my engine is somewhat of a youngster, but is still of the old design.
We have a local club in Livermore, California and I hear a large number are interested in this hobby aroundModesto, California. I have a big display at the County Fair every year.' (We'd like to hear more about your club, Jack, so send your happenings to us.)
Best wishes to another newly formed club, the Le Sueur County Pioner Power Association-they have held shows for three years on Dave Preuhs Farm in LeCenter, Minnesota and it has been growing,so they decided to organize. Welcome to the Gas Engine Magazine family and we do wish you continued growth.
The following comes from LEROY R. HAGEY, JR., Haycock Run Road, R. D.#1, Box 429, Kintersville, Pennsylvania 18930, written to Jack Versteeg and a copy passed along to us, which I'm sure some of you folks will be interested in reading:
'I noticed your 'Help' call in the March-April 1977 GEM. I checked some references and can't help you out with all the letters you mentioned because Hercules and Economy's were built for a number of years. One reference for year 1916 is as follows: During that year Hercules built a 1? 3-5-7-9 and 12 Hp engine. They built both gasoline and kerosene engines. The kerosene engine would always have a 'K' preceding the HP.
If an 'A' followed the engine HP, it was purchased as a stationary engine, no trucks or skids, such as 3A and a kerosene would be K3A. There was no 1? HP kerosene engine.
If an 'H' followed the HP, the engine was sold with a portable all steel hand truck. These engines were manufactured in 1?-3-5 HP gasoline and 3 and 5 HP kerosene.
If a 'B' followed the HP, the engine was a Hopper cooled Team Portable outfit with all steel trucks. These were manufactured in 5-7-9 and 12 HP gasoline and kerosene.
If a 'J' followed it was a Tank Cooled Team Portable outfit and these were manufactured in 7-9 and 12 HP gasoline and kerosene.
Now comes the tough number system. In the hopper-cooled team portable Sawing Rigs with all steel trucks the letters C, D, Land M were used. I will list these separate because the letter will denote length of frame and whether a Tilting Table or Sliding Table saw frame was used.
Type of Table
5C or K5C
5' x 8'
5D or K5D
5' x 8'
7C or K7C
5' x 10'4'
7D or K7D
5' x 8'7'
7L or K7L
5' x 10'4'
7M or K7M
5' x 8'7'
Now someone is going to say they have a 9 HP saw rig. Yes, they were made special order with a tilting table only. I don't know the letter used and also the 7 HP saw rigs were furnished as a tank-cooled engine only.
As you see this doesn't take care of all the letters you requested. I would like to know about other letters myself, especially 'E' as I have several E's and also when a 1? HP Hercules was built and how to tell the difference between a Hercules and Economy. I have a 2? HP with a Hercules style serial number tag on the top, but no sign of the Hercules decal. It would seem in other years than 1916, that Hercules used other letters for other purposes.
I would appreciate any information you might receive from others as this letter indicator system really looks interesting.
As I mentioned before, I think the magazine is a great one; providing a wonderful service for young and old alike.'
DAVE KREITLER, 506 Nevada Avenue, Libby, Montana 59923 shares this:
'Thanks to you and your marvelous magazine, the mystery of the 'Gile' tractor is cleared up-it's a Lion! Roger Ayers of Madison, S. D., sent two photos of the one he has and Ellsworth Weiland of Sandusky,Ohio dug up some good information on it.
In 1914, the Bull Tractor Company employed an engineer to build a small improved tractor and after he succeeded in producing a valuable improvement, he sold it to other parties who organized the Lion Tractor Company and put the machine on the market under the name of Lion Tractor. Manufacturing started in 1915, but was halted after a couple of years as the Bull Tractor Company took the Lion people to court for infringing on patent rights and won the case.
The tractor was a 3-wheeler, front drive recommended for two 14' plows and 24' thresher. Weight 3300 lbs. powered by a two cylinder opposed Gile horizontal engine, 750 RPM. The tractor sold for $565.00.
A great Thanks to these two men for their help. But even more interesting than clearing up the mystery was the response and what it lead to-example: a 16 year old boy, David Hamblin of Cape Cod, Mass, dug a complete Gile engine out of a sand bank and we arecorresponding now to determine whether it is the same as in the Lion. David is a collector of small engines-preferably Otto-and guns. Like to see young fellows collecting 'tired iron.' And the long distance phone calls from Adolph Gerft of Burlington, la. and John Tysee of Crosby, N.D..Thanks boys and a special thanks to Rolland Maxwell (As I Knew It-GEM) and Ed Yeater of Winslow, Ark. for their pictures and information on the Gile tractor. Not to forget Warren Wedekind, Grants Pass, Ore., Gary Oechsner, Theresa, Wisc., Clarence Myers, S. Bend, Ind., Gary Gesink, Sioux Center, Ia., Clarence Shock, Austin, Colo., and Oscar Cook of Billings, Mont., who has the only other Lion that we know of so far thanks a million. Did I miss anyone?
One more thing-the only way you could improve your magazine is to print it monthly-am I getting across? (Yes, Dave, you're getting across, but there are many things to consider--we get letters all the time about this, maybe some day, but for now it's still bi-monthly.)
E. A. LONGHENRY, 15150 Old Guslander Tr.N., Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota 55047 needs to hear from you: 'I am looking for help on a 1? HP United, Type A, S.N. 111501. It has magneto ignition. There is a patent date of 1914 on the magneto. The engine runs, as is, but I am starting to fix it up. I would like to know the colors. I believe the basic color is red. What color was the pin striping? Also, what shape was the gas tank and where was it normally placed? My engine has a metal base that may have held the tank, as there is an opening (for fill spout?) just below the brass nameplate. However, the engine is running. I must raise the gas tank to the level of the valves to make it run without choking. I have since ground the valves and am replacing the rings which may change this-keep up the good work -I especially enjoy photos of unusual engines or tractors.'
JIM HICKEY, 1336 Peach Avenue, El Cajon, California 92021 sent this tip for the gas engine restorers: 'Here's a way to save a gas tank that has some small leaks or loose rusty scale on it. This product will seal the leaks and anchor down the rust so it won't get into the fuel line and carburetor. It is called Pro-Tech Fuel Tank Sealout. Lots of motorcycle shops carry it or you can write to the Pro-Tech Company at 620 E. Walnut Avenue, Fullerton, California 92631.'
MELVIN JUHL, Bowesmont, North Dakota 58217 needs information on his Ottawa gas engine and also advice on setting coil and battery ignition on the 7? HP twin cylinder Ottawa.
A cheery note from CLYDE HONKEN, RR #1, Buffalo Center, Iowa 50424 as he says: 'We have 30 gas engines and meet a lot of nice people at the shows. Would like to hear from other collectors of gas engines.'
Comments from JAMES ALLEN GREEN, 21378 Pleasant Avenue, Riverdale, California 93656: 'I would like to know if anyone knows about the Alamo Engine Company. I have a 2-5 HP Alamo Style 'M' with a Webster make and break magneto. Also, does anyone know what year the Style 'M' was manufactured andwhat is the approximate value? Any information you might have would be appreciated.
I would also like to thank you for being available and having this magazine.'
Basking in the happiness of their hobby are the ALLEN R. LAVATURES, 1105 South Morse Avenue, Liberty, Missouri 64068: 'We enjoy the magazine, the shows, the people involved in this hobby and above all, the pure satisfaction in making one of the (old ones) talk again.
Recently, I was given an AC4 25/8 x 3? Wisconsin In-Line engine, vintage 1930s. After total tear-down, cleaning, adjusting, polishing valves and seats, checking magneto -today my wife and I got it to 'TALK' to us. TERRIFIC!' (Their enthusiasm shows right through the letter, wouldn't you say?)
I received an excellent article on the Greenwald engine, but somehow I cannot find who or where it came from-PLEASE let me hear from you.
That's about it for this time as the magazine is full of activities and so it must get on the way to you. Have a good summer-enjoy your old friendships and cultivate some new ones with the great folks that attend the Shows! (Look up John 3:3 and God Bless You.)