Winter is here and I am sure everyone is busy planning that 'even bigger and better' show for 1979. Many of you may already be scheduling your vacations to include as many of these shows as possible. Good for you! Quite a few of our readers also seem to be busy with restorations in anticipation of the coming show season. Some of them need answers as is evidenced by the many, many letters:
T.E. Harris, 4 Coady Court, Petaluma, California 94952 was recently given an engine to restore and he needs HELP. The engine plate reads ENERGI, N.P. Jorgen-sens Maskineabrik, H.K.5, AARG. 52, No. 840 TLF., Middlefart 368, the Smoring - double Shell motor oil. He gathers it is a Swedish engine with manufacturer's name and telephone number, but what is H.K. 5 and AARG. 52? It is a vertical single cylinder engine with a cam operated pump (cooling water?), enclosed cast-on-cylinder water jacket, enclosed crankcase, Bosch gear driven mag. and single 16' flywheel. The other end has a clutch of some kind and driveshaft manifold is missing. Any information would help him.
We have not heard for some time from BEN HARTMANN, 1315 S. Florissant, Florissant, Missouri 63031 as he writes. 'I wrote a letter to Smoke Rings about five years ago when I first became interested in this hobby. I received a very good response. I've met a lot of wonderful people who have helped me a lot in finding and restoring old tractors and engines.
I now have run into a problem again and thought some readers may be able to help.
I recently acquired a Model W Cletrac, made by the Cleveland Tractor Company, Cleveland, Ohio. I am trying to find the age of this tractor. On the engine tag the number is 10174 with Cleveland Tractor Co. The tag on the frame has the number 29552. From what I can tell it was originally a sort of army green color.
I would like to find someone who has a listing of years by serial numbers or any other information about this tractor that would be of help in restoring it.
There are a couple of others like it in this area; however, no other owner has much information either.
I would appreciate very much any information and would gladly pay postage if anyone has information.'
From E. HOWARD CRAIN, R.D. 83, Preston Road, Shelby, Ohio 44875: 'Here is a picture of the orchard sprayer f just bought. The name is Hardie Orchard Sprayer -a wooden tank and hoses, a 4 HP upright Cushman engine with a water pump.
1 am wondering if any readers know how old it is and what were the original colors and any other information that would be of help. I have other gas engines but this is my biggest project so far. 1 would like to get this ready for this year's shows.'
FRANK L. WOODWORTH, R.F.D. #1, Route 69, Pittsfield, Maine 04967 recently acquired a Saxon gas engine and he needs some help. The engine is a 3 HP and was manufactured by the Brackett Shaw and Lunt Company of Somersworth, New Hampshire and Boston, Massachusetts. According to the brass tag, this Saxon operates at 475 RPM and the serial # is 167249. It has a Webster mag. and the flywheels are approximately 2214 inches in diameter. He needs information on the year of the engine and the proper color scheme.
A. J. GIRARD, Box 355, Scobey, Montana 59263 tells us: 'I have been enjoying the G.E.M. and l.M.A. magazines for a lot of years and this is the first time I am asking for help. I have a John M. Smyth, 8 HP engine #116310 gas engine and would like any information about it. I have asked every gas engine man at all the shows I have been to in the last year or have not found anyone who has heard of this make. The carburetor is the only thing missing and I need help, perhaps a picture, of this carburetor.'
LON NINEMIRE, Box 90, Bartles-ville Wesleyan College, Bartlesville, Oklahoma 74003: 'I recently went back home from College to Hill City, Kansas and found this old engine. The nameplate reads: The Simple Oil Engine, Model B, No. 522, 6 HP, Speed 400, manufactured by the Hawkins and Barnett Machine Company, Trinidad, Colorado. It also had a gas torch to heat the head which you can see in the picture. Could someone tell me about this engine: dates, color and how long it was made, etc.
I am 20 years old and truly enjoy G.E.M. I have only been collecting engines since the spring of 1978.'
BOB KAELIN, 1099 Ostrander Ave., Riverhead, Long Island, N.Y. has a 1? HP Waterloo Boy engine and would like to know the original paint scheme. Bob has been doing repair work on engines of this type and has collected and traded quite a few of them, off and on, for over 30 years, but this is his first Waterloo Boy. 'I remember when people were throwing them away or cutting them up for scrap,' Bob says, 'and the few that were still in use were owned by people who could afford nothing else. But I believed then, as now, that they were still a heck of a lot better and more dependable than many of the newer types. It is very pleasing to see the widespread interest in preservation of these engines.' Bob is a John Deere mechanic on Eastern Long Island and notes that many of the two-cylinder tractors are still alive and well. He, himself, owns three (1939 H, 1940 A, and 1941 B) and they are still working in everyday use. Bob's father was a dyed-in-the wool 'red iron' man who sold the first Farmalls that came on the territory and remained an IH dealer for over 30 years.
BILL M. EBEAR, Box 822, Grand Centre, Alberta, Canada TOR-1TO has an identification problem with one of his gas engines. It is a one-cylinder, air-cooled engine. A couple of the bolts have 'Rockford S.P. Co.' written on the side of them.
JIM HICKEY, 1333 El Rey Avenue, El Cajon, California 92021 tells us: 'There has been very little in past issues of G .E.M. on the Meco engine. I have a 6 HP Meco, serial #A1549. Bore and stroke are 6' and 8'. This engine looks quite a bit like a Witte. Can any reader tell me what, if any, connection there was? Are Meco engines rare?'
DAVE KREITLER, 506 Nevada, Libby, Montana 59923 writes for information: Recently we acquired ¦an old Dan Patch 5 HP engine, serial #4678 manufactured by the M.W. Savage Company of Minnesota. In searching what books I have, I can find nothing on it. Wasn't Dan Patch a famous ficticious race horse? Maybe someone out there could inform us as to the color and any other information.'
JAMES E. AND SCOTT FILLE-BROWN, East Washington Street, Stewartsville, New York 08886 need help with a Woodpecker gas engine built by the Middletown Machine Company, Middletown, Ohio. It is a serial #15412, 325 RPM, approximately 7?? HP. The bore is 7?', stroke is about 8?'. This tank-cooled engine is in poor condition, so any information, pictures, etc. would be greatly appreciated. (See also WANTED ad).
GLENN McMUNN, R.R. #1, Villa Ridge, Illinois 62996 has a vertical Cushman engine, Model C43U, serial #8582C, 5-6 HP. The engine has a small radiator and water pump. He would like to know the correct color.
JACK VERSTEEG, 3935 Cooley Drive, N.E. Salem, Oregon 97303 is having some problems with identification; 'Having been an engine collector for some years now, I don't run into too many engines that I can't identify what they are. This one is a little different. The flywheels are 34' diameter with a 3' face. Bore 5?'- stroke 10'. The base and barrel are case in one piece. It has two pushrods, one down each side. The vertical flywheel governor controls the intake valve. The ignitor is all brass and has a knurled knob on the trip rod for adjusting the timing. Weight is 1860 pounds. Enough of the color is left to show it was painted Seegar Olds Marroon.'
The tractor had been completely rebuilt 6 years ago, by a retired John Deere mechanic. Upon completion of the tractor he had a stroke which left his disabled and it was never started. 1 found it still silting in the garage where the work had been performed and I purchased it. Come the following Saturday, a few adjustments and a belt from one of my other tractors and she fired right off. She now starts easily by hand and runs beautifully, but still needs some sheet metal work.
The engine is a 6 HP Associated serial #130037. As far as the history on it, I have none. I purchased it from a local engine dealer who told me it came from Missouri. It looked as though it had been many years since it had been run. Some timely work and tender loving care and it runs nicely, starts easily and is very dependable. I believe it will make a fine show piece. It is one of over 40 in my collection.
DAVID HUNT, Mount Pleasant, Gunville Hill, Winterslow, Salisbury, Wittshire, England has an interesting offer: 'If any Americans or Canadians are ever paying a visit to England, they are more than welcome to look me up and see my collection of engines, and I could also put them in touch with other collectors. There is only one stipulation-they have to be engine fanatics like myself.'
FRANK BRUVER writes from Dublin, Ontario, Canada NOK 1E0; 'I am wondering if any readers could give me information on Gilson engine I recently acquired. The flywheels are 17?' and 1?' in width. It is a hit and miss, open-crank and is equipped with a battery box and buzzer coil. Stroke is4?' and the bore is 3?'- Serial #53944.'
LEE HOUGHTON, Box 45, Wallingford, Vermont 05773 would like to correspond with anyone with knowledge of Bremen Calorix Six. It is in excellent shape but lacking short piston, bottom piston cover and water pump. He needs pictures to study feasibility of casting up some new parts. He also needs information on F.M. Rites steam engines.
JOHN E. BROWN, 2520 North Towne Drive, Findlay, Ohio 45850 writes:
'I have a Witte Drag saw that I need help in trying to determine the age of. The serial no. is in the 54000's and the engine has a flat water tank. It is battery ignition and the carb and spark plug and valves are on the side of the head. We thought that it was about 1910, but at the shows this past summer, I was told by other Witte drag saw owners that it was the oldest that they had ever seen.
I am also a collector of old chain saws, mainly two-man saws. At the shows I attended whenever I would start them and cut blocks of wood, I always attracted a large crowd. People seemed to think that the two-man saws were 'man killers' and called them as such. Attempts at manufacturing a workable and usable chain saw were started in the late 1800's. Many crude machines were tried and after 1900 a few that did work, were made. The history of the chain saw is very interesting and goes back as far as the 1870's when a patent for a chain saw was issued, but none were ever made from this patent. Some early models were steam and air driven with gas engines coming on later. Some were even electric driven. Chain saws are not as new as some people think they are.
I know that there are other collectors, and would enjoy hearing from them to exchange ideas and info.'
HOWARD BROVONT, 64954 C.R. 15, Goshen, Indiana 46526 offers this information:
'There has been several readers inquiring about Witte Engines. My information might not do any good, but anyway here it is. Lister Diesel did take over Witte Engine Corp. I have literature that advertises Witte Engines and generator units. One is an AD. series 3K.W. that Mr. Lawrence Hannah of Canada mentioned in his letter to Smoke Rings, in Sept.-Oct. 78 G.E.M. This company was established in 1870 so it must be the original. In 1944 it was purchased by the U.S. Steel Corp., and in 1966it states, the company began its new privately owned operation, and in 1970 they moved the Witte plant to Olathe, KS.
Their new address is Witte Engine Corp., 555 East 56 Hiway, Olathe, Kansas 66061. Telephone (913) 764-3512.
I got this information and literature from a Lister Engine distributor. I cannot say for sure if they manufacture at this plant or only assemble or what. It does appear to be their main headquarters, 25 miles south of Kansas City.'
W. COOMBE, 476 Victoria Street, Kingston, Ontario, Canada K7L3Z7 writes;'I am in the process of restoring some gasoline engines and I am in need of information on paint colors. I would like to know the correct colors for the striping pattern on the sides of the channel iron skids and the flywheel spokes that was originally used on the Lauson Frost King and the De Laval Type F engines. Also the paint specification for the base color of the skids on the same engines.
Would appreciate hearing from any of your readers who may be able to provide the information on the paint colours. My thanks in advance for any help that may be received.'
GARY HARWOOD, 332? S. Main Street, Putnam, Connecticut 06260 would like to know what year his F.M. 1? HP Z, serial #435704 was manufactured and what year his Empire Special 2 HP #758616 built by F.M. for Empire Milking Machine Company of Rochester, New York was manufactured.
He also needs the same information on his two McCormick Deering LA's. The first one has no serial number on it but it has an oil tube coming out from in between the push rods and it goes over to the rockers to oil them and the valves. The second is #LAB6067 and has the rocker oiler on the end of the shaft.
DALE PETTY, Route #1, Box 25, Pasco, Washington 99301 needs some help:
'I am a recent newcomer at collecting the old one lungers and old steel wheeled tractors. I have only been at it since last spring. So far I have got 14 one lungers and 2 old tractors. Have a 18-36 Hart Parr and a 18-32 crossmount Case. Soon have them all running, but not all painted, that will be a winter project.
What I am writing about is that I have 3 old engines that I would like to find something about. The first one is a 2 H.P. upright Monitor that my greatgrandfather had. The serial no. is 5324 and it was used to pump water with. What I need is the age of this old hit and miss? Is there anyone who can tell me?
The second engine is a Standard Cream Separator. Does anyone know the ages or horsepower they are? Also any other information on them would be greatly appreciated.
Last of all is a 3 H.P. Galloway engine. Serial no. 46340. What is the age and color of it. Still have it soaking on end. Want to get it restored this winter, but do need help as to color and trim if any on it.
RALPH R. McKEE, 14571 Lenone, Detroit, Michigan 48239 writes: 'I just recently saw a copy of the G.E.M. and I have decided to write to you in request of information. I have an old gas engine and have recently been asked if I would like to sell it. I have no idea as to what price it would bring. It is a United type S 6 HP, #450141 and was manufactured in Lansing, Michigan. The engine is in excellent condition and runs like a top. I'm not a collector or even a buff. I just would like some idea as to its worth.'
Does anyone have any information about the old marine engines shown in the photo?' asks F. SPEARS, JR. 51 Grant Street, Lockport, New York 14094. 'One is a Belle Isle, #3171, 2 HP made by Belle Isle Engine Company. The timer and spark advance is a small wooden disc that snaps in position and is activated through a small water pump. It is a 2 cycle, headless, single cylinder with a ll?' flywheel.
The other is about the same size but with a head, water cooled by convections, also has a wooden timer, but elmgated tear drop design, activated by a steel rod protruding from the flywheel that brushes against a flat spring as the wheel rotates. No name tag. Need all information.'
RALPH OLMSTED, 120 Guadalajara, New Iberia, Louisiana 70560 has some interesting information:
'Please pass to all Louisianans and nearby subscribers that several friends and myself are trying to form a La. Antique Engine Association. I enjoyed the shows I made this year.'
GLEN SODERGREN, 21700 Parrish Road, N., Scandia, Minnesota 55073 has recently acquired a Petter 6 HP 2 cycle diesel and would like any help on starting, age, oiling and pictures, as he thinks there are parts missing. He also needs information on the type of battery used and starting and running information on a Barco gasoline hammer.
RAY PICHEL, Box 213, R.D. #1, Hellerton, Pennsylvania 17055 writes: 'GEM READERS: I advertised a 15 HP Fairbanks-Morse engine, and needless to say have had loads of inquiries. Unfortunately I sold the engine to one person who inquired so all the other writers feel offended or unhappy about not having bought it. All I can say is, remember, I advertised one F-M only. One person wrote me a very distasteful letter once before when I wrote back telling that a particular engine was sold. So don't forget readers, don't blame the former owner if you fail to buy something that is advertised. Once again, thank you each and all who wrote to me.'
I had to dismantle it to get it in my ? -tone pick-up for the trip home. I now have it restored to mint condition, thanks to Gil Easter of Lakeport, who supplied the needed information I did not have.
MARK ARNOLD, R.R. #1A, Box 70A, Corinth, Kentucky 41010 tells us: 'I have received my second copy of GEM and enjoy it very much. I have been collecting engines for about a year and have several. My Grandfather, who got me interested in gas engines, has a 32 volt Westinghouse Light and Power Plant, Type E, 750 watts, and we would like to know if these are rare. We would also like to know what years these were made.' Mark also gives us some information on Maytag engines: 'The original Maytag motor, a vertical single cylinder engine, was manufactured between 1914and 1923. The model 82, a horizontal single cylinder engine, has a ? HP rating at 1050 RPM. It was manufactured between 1923 and 1937. In 1937 a twin cylinder line was introduced with the 72D horizontal engine. It opposed 5/8 HP engine rated at 1650 RPM. In 1942 minor changes were made to form the model 72DA. It also opposed 5/8 HP engine rated at 1650 RPM and was manufactured until 1952 when Maytag discontinued their multi-motor line.'