Smoke rings

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Hi Friends! Well, here it comes- the last issue for the year 1979 and as you all know each year seems to be shorter-(that's really a way to tell we're getting older-but don't spread that word around.) I hope you've all been happy touring the country to the shows-I'll bet the gas crisis made some changes in vacation plans-but do hope you made it to some of the activities. And this being the Holiday issue-you better get moving on those Christmas presents and I'll get moving onto the letters we have

From BILL GROWCOCK, 1312 Kathy Street, Van Wert, Ohio 45891 a letter stating: 'I have just acquired my first gas engine and need some assistance in restoring it. The nameplate on the engine says The Ideal Gas and Gasoline Engine, Ideal Motor Company, Lansing, Michigan. It is a 2? HP upright, water-cooled, serial number 2902.

My problem is that I have been unable to find any information about. the engine. I have been to three different gas engine association shows, but have found no one who can tell me anything about my Ideal-other than the fact that it is similar to a Novo upright. Vic Lippi of Van Wert suggested I might be able to get more help from the magazine.

I need any information on the Ideal Company. Also need to know how to hook up ignition to the engine. It has an igniter and an old coil which was with the engine. And how many volts are needed? The engine appears to be dark green with red striping. Are these the original colors??' (Hope you buddies can help George-but again people I must tell you when you write letters for this column, I cannot print any items you want to buy- that must come in to the office in the form of a classified ad at 10? per word.)

Other Ideal engines are presented as the picture comes from JIM HICKEY, 1333 El Rey Avenue, El Cajon, California 92021: 'See my picture of an Ideal engine collection.

Each of these three air-cooled Ideal engines is a different size. From top to bottom: the flywheel sizes are 12?', 11' and 10'. Bore and stroke dimensions are: 4 x 4, 3? x 4, and 3 x 3. Most of the castings will not interchange. I wonder if there are any other sizes??'

RICHARD A. DUNNING, SR., 571 May Street, North Attleboro, Massachusetts 02760 is restoring a Fuller & Johnson farm pump engine made about 1911. He would like to hear from anyone that can help him. (Again, Richard needs parts and I'll have to tell you-it would be best to run a classified ad.)

From RICHARD NIELSEN, 9122 W. 66th Place, Arvada, Colorado 80002 this: 'I have just purchased a Motor Car with a Fairmont engine 8 HP, serial number 66517, Type QBA, Group B. Everything seems to be complete. It has C & S railroad lettering and paint on it. As I would like to restore this motor car completely, I need information on paint color, overall appearance of motor car and the operation of this engine. Thanks for your help and cooperation and I will try and answer all letters. I too, like all GEM readers, enjoy your magazine and look forward to each and every issue.'

ROBERT PEARSON, Box 41, Millerton, Pennsylvania 16936 would like to know if anyone has any information on an Olds Gaspower Co. engine, No. C459, 18 HP patented Aug. 29, 1905, Lansing, Michigan U.S.A. He needs to know if this engine had a flyball governor. Some of the parts on the engine are missing and he can't tell if this was the way the engine was manufactured.

Seeking help is FRANCIS J. LUECK, Box 156, Route 1, Central Lake, Michigan 49622: 'I have recently acquired a two cylinder, two cycle 7 HP marine engine made by the Erd Motor Co., Saginaw, Michigan, No. 3053. Is it possible that one of the readers could help me with any information about this company or engine. Thanks for any help!' Phone 616-544-6582.

TRYGUE HANSON, 23621-70th Avenue, NW, Stanwood, Washington 98292 writes: 'Awhile back at the threshing bee at Lynden, Washington, I asked an exhibitor how he knew the age of his Novo. He replied that you had once published a list of serial numbers by dates. Would it be possible to republish the list or at least tell me the age of my engine? The usual brass plate identifies it as The Novo, S/N 26023, 1? HP, 600 RPM. It is battery ignited and is larger than the aforementioned exhibitor's engine which was mag ignited.' (Anyone out there-let him know the answer as I have no way of tracing the magazine issue it was in without more information.)

'HELP! I have inherited an old marine engine and so far have not been able to find any information on it. Can Gas Engine help? The engine plate reads: Roberts Motors, San-dusky, Ohio, Model M, 10 HP, serial no. 6177. It is a two cylinder engine with two spark plugs on top of each cylinder. Any information your readers can pass along will be appreciated.' This letter came from BOB STIMPERT, Route 2, Box 195A, Sheloh, Ohio 44878.

This letter is sent to perhaps help some of the readers and it is from FRED J. (DOC) SCHUSTER, 3535 Glen Oak Drive, Eugene, Oregon 97405: 'Here are a few little items that may be of interest concerning John Deere Model E engines: In addition to most other gaskets the special felt magneto gasket can still be obtained from the factory in Moline, Illinois. This is fortunate because the gasket could be a difficult one to make. (I didn't even know what the gasket looked like.) Needle valves can be obtained new, also, but they are expensive. Undoubtedly other minor parts are still stocked by the factory.

Excellent newly manufactured springs can be obtained from Gor-Nel Co., Chicago City, Minnesota 55013, and newly manufactured igniters and trip levers are made by the Engine Room, Palo Colorado Canyon, Coast Route, Monterey, California 93940.

John Deere Model E engines in good condition may throw oil while running, but they should not smoke. Such smoking is caused by oil leaking from the crankcase into the fuel tank due to age warpage of the crankcase floor plate. The condition is rather easily cured as follows: Drain oil and fuel. Then remove the engine sub-base, fuel tank and crankcase floor plate. Drill two small holes through the lips of the engine base at the locations shown in the diagram. Drill holes 3/32' in diameter, then tap for a 6-32 screw about 1/2' long.

Then drill two corresponding clearance holes through the sheet metal floor plate and the gasket. To reassemble, place gasket against engine base, then screw floor plate in place with 6-32 screws and lock washers. Draw up screws just snug enough to flatten the lock washers, not extremely tight. For extra insurance against leakage, cover screw heads with a little dab of Permatex. Finish remainder of assembly as usual. (Be sure gasket sealer is placed on both surfaces of the gaskets before assembly.) This procedure should effectively stop oil leakage into the fuel tank with attendant smoking.'

Now this letter is from DOC SCHUSTER also and he is seeking some answers: 'I have written a few brief articles in the past, hoping that they would be of some help to others. Now, however, I would appreciate some information, too, concerning an early 1? HP Model E John Deere stationary engine.

1. What type of plating or coating was applied originally to most of the cast iron parts, and what was its purpose? Even some interior parts, as the cam gear, have this coating. It is fairly easy to scrape it off with a sharp knife. The coating has a dark gray powdery appearance when removed. It does not resemble paint.

2. How does the gear end of the magneto receive lubrication? It is sealed from the outside by the thick circular felt washer and is effectively isolated from the interior of the crankcase by magneto plate, plate gasket, and the long shroud on the magneto gear. What prevents this bearing from drying out?

3. This engine has been dubbed the 'bar none' because none of the other engines throw oil like this John Deere. Not even the Model M McDeering. While assembling the John Deere, great care was taken to use factory gaskets wherever possible, plus sealer on all mating surfaces. But while this engine is running, oil seems to ooze from every pore, except around the carefully gasketed joints. Oil literally bubbles from between the bottom edge of the magneto plate and the cork crankcase cover gasket. Oil also oozes in large quantities from around the main crankshaft bearings, coats the flywheel hubs, and is thrown off. Oil oozes from the ungasketed joints around the speed regulator knob and the exhaust rod. This is an early engine that does not seem to have a crankcase ventilator. What have I done wrong? Cylinder-piston are in excellent condition with new piston rings, and crankcase oil is at the recommended level.'

WAYNE COLE, Box 54, Page, North Dakota 58064, phone 701-668-2733 or 668-2735 tells us: 'I need help from the vast store of information filed with your readers. I have an M M tractor UDLX Model, serial number 310013, also known as a Comfortractor. I would like to know the year mine was built, the number made and the years of production and all the highlights and sidelights pertaining to this tractor. I know someone has the information I need.'

LARRY HANNAH, 90314th Street, New Westminster, B.C. Canada V3M 4P8 writes: 'A friend and myself recently purchased a Stickney 5 HP engine. We would like to hear from anyone with information on these engines, particularly the operation of the igniter which is of unconventional design.'

DOUGLAS HERNDON, 330 S. Market Street, Jefferson, Ohio 44047 needs your help in finding any data about the Massey Harris Type 1 gas engines. There is very little available about the Massey Harris Company, especially about their early gas engines. He would really appreciate some help from the GEM buddies regarding the early history of this engine.

LEONARD SPOELMAN, 3221 Brookshire SE, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49508 sends a photo of a 2 cycle Kalamazoo Motor Car (railroad engine). He is looking for any information on it and some help in identifying what the carburetor should be like-please help him if you can.

Another gas buff seeking help is KEN DAWSON, 1311 19th Street So., Moorhead, Minnesota 56560: 'I would like to ask a few questions on some engines I have. The first engine is a Charles Brunner 1 HP water-cooled, manufactured in Peru, Illinois. The only model number I can find is around the water hopper in raised letters it says C. Brunner Winner Peru Ill. #2. Did these engines come with a serial number on the engine, battery box or skids? I looked all the pieces over and could find no place one would have been attached. I would also like to find out what the ignition timing block looked like as this engine is hit and miss plug style.

I also have a Reeves pulley company engine and would like to know if there are any more of these engines around.

I own a 3 HP J.D. gas engine and I would like to talk to anyone that has one of these engines running. I would be glad to answer any and all letters.'

N. EARL KOCHER, 104 Glen Avenue, Ellwood City, Pennsylvania 16117 asks: 'Can you furnish me with information on a Vim gas engine, to get it to run? It is 2 cycle, water-cooled, 6' wide, 12' long and 12' high.' (Hope someone helps you out, Earl.)

GEORGE L. JACOBS, 708 Knapp Street, Wolf Point, Montana 59201 sent this letter: 'I would like to have the address of the Knapp Electrical Corporation. They used to build the number 450 Erector Motor. . .designed to run on 2 to 4 volts or even 6 volts direct current. This type of motor had a 3-pole armature and 1 field winding at the bottom. The ends were pressed steel and round with the sides open all around. The motor was painted black and stood about 3' high and 2?' wide. It had a 5/32' diameter shaft. Do you know of a place that I could get information on this Knapp built motor? Some motors were equipped with a reverse switch opposite the shaft end. I had one of these Knapp Erector Motors when I was a boy (1928) but it was given away. I sure would like a souvenir Knapp motor now.' (Watch the mail George, you'll probably hear from one of our readers.)

STEPHEN MEARS, 6 Monksher-borne Road, RAMSDELL, Basing-stoke, Hampshire England recently purchased an old American tractor, a Huber and he wishes to restore it to its original condition, but unfortunately he hasn't found anything on this tractor as yet in England. He would most appreciate someone writing him some information.

FRED J. SULZBERGER, 712 Ridgewood, Ames, Iowa 50010 sends a picture and says: 'I have a Planet Jr. Tractor manufactured by the S.L. Allen & Co. in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Pent #1969023 and Serial #7015. It is in working condition, except it is missing the wheels and any attachments it might of had, like a plow.

If you have any information you could give me on the Planet Jr. Tractor I would appreciate it.'

Another short letter from JOHN PETERSON, Wykoff, Minnesota 55990: 'I need some information on one of my engines and thought that some of the readers of GEM could help me. I would like to know the age of it. It is a Fairbanks Morse, 2 HP, serial number 673183. This is the disc flywheel type.

Some pictures with a letter from DALE NICKERSON, Glasgow Road, Cassadaga, New York 14718: 'Two views of another odd ball at the Nickerson tired iron clinic-it's a Lazier gas engine made in Buffalo, New York. Some of the specifications are bore 5?', stroke 4 7/8', flywheel diameter 19?', height 37', weight 620. Unusual in that the flywheels are on the inside of the main bearings. Have an idea it was made before 1900. Has place for hot tube ignition for use on natural gas, also has a timer for plug ignition.

Hope to have her running by Spring. Any of you tired iron nuts out there have one like it??'

D. B. BARRY, Box 176, Yarram Victoria, Australia 3971 sends this lengthy bit of news: 'This is my first letter to GEM and I want to try and answer some of the questions in Smoke Rings. First of all to Dale Volgamore-the number of your Fairbanks Morse indicated that it was made in 1946. Now to Mike Arens, your Fairbanks Morse was built in 1929. Patrick Rodden, your engine with the two fuel tanks into the hopper is a Wiscona Pep. These engines were originally manufactured by Termast-Monahan Manufacturing Company, Oshkosh, Wisconsin, but in 1921 the firm was sold to the Wiscona Pep Motor and Parts Co., Oshkosh, Wisconsin. They stopped making engines in 1939.

Roy S. Mast-10-20 McCormicks used a variety of magnetos. From 1923-1926 they used a Split-dorf (Dixie) Model 46C; from 1927-1934 tractor serial numbers KC 85767 - KC 205818, NT 817 to NT 1960 they used an International type E4A and from 1934 to the end of production they used an International Type F4. Also sprinkled throughout the whole lot on some tractors they used Bosch FU4 and ZU4 types.

Everett L. Martin, your McCormick IHC LB was made in 1946. Gary Crow-the difference between a Jumbo and a Little Jumbo is just that the Little Jumbo is the smallest engine the company made, approximately 1? HP. Scott Stroven-the Bull dog and Bull Pup engines were made by Bates & Edmunds Motor Co., Lansing, Michigan who were in business from 1900-1923. These engines were sold by, not manufactured by the Fairbanks Company of New York and the Fairbanks Company had nothing to do with Fairbanks-Morse.

Jerry Gerrior-Raymond Scholl's picture certainly showed you what was missing from the pump plate of your IHC. Also what the water tank looks like, but it did not show you what was missing from where your upper arrow pointed to the thing which usually goes there is the cylinder oiler. Just check that the hole goes right through to the piston and cylinder before you put anything in it, though.

Bill Hossfield, your picture in 1978 Nov.-Dec. looks like a Hercules to me or perhaps one of its Allied makes, Economy, etc. Gary Harwood, your FM Z 1? HP was made in 1920 and your LAB 6067 McCormick was made in 1937. C.

My 2 HP Fairbanks Morse engine with F.M. air compressor, mounted on a common base. The air compressor is water-cooled and apparently had some kind of water tank bolted to its head. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has a picture of a complete unit like mine.

H. Chase, see my answer to Scott Stroven on Bull Dog engines.

Richard A. Render, your picture in Mar.-Apr. 1979 GEM looks like a Hercules. Harry Owen, your picture of sawing rig looks like Hercules. Hercules catalog shows outfits same as this. Gerry Wheeler, your engine is a McCormick Deering Type M - in picture Mar.-Apr. 1979. Al Hase, once again see my answer to Scott Stroven. To E. K. Coater, your Fairbanks Morse 5.10003 is 1922 and 584836 is 1924.' (Hope you fellows all get to see this information-Dave Barry certainly answered a lot of questions-I hope I typed them right-it was quite difficult to dechipher the letter.)

REG CRISP, Box 131, Dell Rapids, South Dakota 57022 would certainly appreciate if you readers could advise the proper colors by number for 1929 Case and Hart-Parr tractors. He says he has seen quite a variety of color on these tractors and would like to have colors as close to right as possible.

Sharing some history on Aermotor engines is LON NINEMIRE, Box 90, Bartlesville, Oklahoma 74003: 'Aermotor started building engines in 1909 until the early 1930s. They even had a five cylinder rotary engine on the drawing board, that was never put into production. Aermotor started their operation in Chicago and in 1969 moved to Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. They remained there until 1974 before they moved to their present location at Conway, Arkansas. Their phone number is 501-329-9811 and I have had good luck with them running off photo copies of old manuals.

Wanting to show his appreciation, this letter arrived from JERRY GERRIOR, 237 Centre Street, Danvers, Massachusetts 01923: 'I would like to thank each and every individual who helped me in locating my IHC vertical engine. I started to send thank you letters to the first 12-15 replies, but the mail was so heavy, I decided to send one THANK YOU to GEM to thank all you fine people.'

VIRGIL MISCHKE, 1536 Lincoln Avenue, Red Wing, Minnesota 55066, phone 612-388-3045 writes: 'Enjoy your GEM very much, although I am not an old engine collector, I have an interest in old engines I have worked as a salesman selling automotive parts all my life.

I have become the owner of parts, books and records of the Red Wing Motor Company. This company made marine engines from about 1900 until 1962, 2 cycle engines in the early years and later 4 cycle in 1-2-4 and 6 cylinders. Every engine came from the factory with a brass plate giving a serial number; from this I can tell when it was built and to whom it was sold.

Very little information is available on the 2 cycle engines and no parts at all; the 4 cycle engines is a little different. In most cases though, parts are available to make these old engines run again.

I hope this can be printed in 'Smoke Rings,' it would be interesting to know how many prowd owners have Red Wings in their collection. I can assure you all letters will be answered.

Enclosed is a picture of an old Red Wing 2 cycle #1233 on display at 'Kings Cove' in Hastings, Minnesota. Thanks in advance for your help.'

DEAN T. KEDINGER, Route 1, HWY. 103, Oakfield, Wisconsin 53065, phone 414-923-3920 sends this letter: 'I have some questions relating to a small tank cooled engine and a 3 cylinder marine engine.

I purchased a very small tank cooled engine from Portland, Indiana show this year. It has a 2' bore with a 1-5/16' stroke, 10' flywheels and a water-cooled head. It has a small tag that reads New York on it. Could this be who made this engine? This engine was painted a very dark blue and is missing the carb., timing, rocker arm, and some other small parts. Can anyone tell me about a New York engine or if they have one like it, or knows anything about the company that made them. Please help!

I also found a 3 cylinder marine engine that has nickel-plated heads and many brass parts on it. The name tag is in heavy brass and reads 'Kahlenberg Bros., Two Rivers, Wisconsin, U.S.A. Shop No. 81 T , patented Jan. 5th, 1904.' This engine came out of the boat that belonged to the C. A. Lawton Company up at DePere, Wisconsin.

I don't fully understand how this engine works. This is an igniter engine with many small moving parts and some parts are missing from it. What the purpose of some of these parts are I don't know. I would like to hear from anyone that has a Kahlenberg engine or that can tell me anything about the company or marine engines like this. Please help, I will deeply appreciate any and all answers-Thank you.'

CAREY K. ATTKISSON, Route 1, Rockville, Virginia 23146 would like to hear from anyone that has experience with a Hercules throttle-governed kerosene engine, 7 HP class. (Watch the mail Carey, you'll probably hear from one of our GEM family.)

A letter regarding the inquiry from H. L. Ritter in the Sept.-Oct. issue recoils comes from ART STONE, New Port Richey, Florida 33552. 'I would say that the Master Vibrator was sold as an accessory to Model T Ford owners. It was not an ignition coil, but was connected to the 4 Ford coils whose vibrators were put out of action. The idea was to secure more even running by having only one vibrator to adjust.'

Next, this comes from CARL BLACKWELL, Route 2, Box 206C, Wynne, Arkansas as he states: 'I have a Maytag square tub cast aluminum washer. It is painted a dark blue. I assume this was the factory color because it still has the Maytag emblem on it. I would like to know what color the machines were painted and what year it was made, serial number 619499H.

I am restoring a Model L.A. John Deere. I know these were built from 1941 to 1946. The serial number is missing. Is there any way to tell what year it was made? Also need some parts-see want ads.

I have an 8 HP engine built by Southern Engine and Boiler Works, Jackson, Tennessee. What color was this engine?

Thank you very much and I really enjoy your Gas Engine Magazine.'

REV. GEORGE GOODWIN, Box A, Worcester, New York 12197 would like to correspond with anyone having a 10 HP Root and Vandervoort engine. (Hey, good Buddy out there-let Rev. George hear from you.)

Needing some answers - ROBERT C. SMITH, R.D. 1, Box 78, Bainbridge, New York 13733 writes: 'For the Smoke Rings column-I have an engine and I cannot seem to find any information on it. It is an Acme 1? HP Shop No. 5393 with a bore of 3?''. The plate says Acme Engine Company, Makers, Lansing, Michigan. The head is missing (see Want Ads) along with valves, springs, carburetor and apparently the igniter and mag bracket were on the side of the head. I would like to know if some other company made this engine and if some other head will fit. The mag was in the water-hopper and is a Webster Tr-Polar. The engine appears to be black or a very dark green. Also the gas tank is cast in the base.'

This notice comes from DOUGLAS SATHER, 5200 San Paulo Street, Orlando, Florida 32807: 'Help! I am new in collecting old gas engines. I have had this one engine since I was 15 years old. I am now 23.I don't really know what it is. It looks like a VI cyl. engine. Some people I have talked to say it is a Maytag and some say it is a Johnson. I haven't found any numbers or a name on it. It is a kick start and has a mixer on it. The camshaft runs on a rod like a Kohler engine built today.

I also have a John Deere type E, 1? HP, 600 rpm, serial number 302951 and a Wisconsin AHH. I would like to know the age of each of these engines-please help. I am crazy about John Deere engines.'

R. G. JACOBY, Route 3, Marengo, Iowa 52301 says: 'In GEM, 11 78, p. 13 Gordon Aebig wanted to know when the F-30 was made. I have 37 model, painted red. It was the first 30 to come on rubber here. Before 37 they were on steel and painted gray. I don't remember how long before 37 they were made. I think the M and H came in 41 or 42 and that was the last of the 30s.

Harry C. Bell IMA 11-77 picture is not Minnesota. It looks like a N & S in Floyd Clymer's book, page 115. George W. Procumer IMA 9 78-13 Case picture looks like it is printed in reverse. Yours for more magazines.'

Another of our GEM family is seeking some help as ARNOLD GRANRUD, 1547 HWY 51 N., Stoughton, Wisconsin 53589 writes: 'I have been collecting antique tractors for just a little over a year and find the Gas Engine Magazine very good reading.

I have just purchased a Delco Light, serial number 199206 in just like new condition, but I don't know anything about the unit. I hope one of the many readers of the Smoke Rings column who has a Delco Light or anyone who knows anything about it would give me some information. What would be the D.C. voltage? I appreciate hearing from someone.'

RON DAY, Heuvelton, New York 13654 writes: 'I have acquired an Associated Motor, 2? HP, serial number 168227, bore 4', stroke 5'. I would like some help with the year of manufacture and pin striping details. It was red with gold pin stripe and the ignition set up. The magento is there but I don't think it works. I need help on the operating of the hit and miss igniter that is there now. Thanks for the help in advance.

I also collect old Briggs & Stratton engines. I teach small engine repair in high school and use the old engines to demonstrate how engines have evolved to our engines of today.'

KERMIT SAVILLE, Box 204, Redding, Iowa engine we have never heard about-I don't think so anyhow, it certainly is not a common name with me. He says: 'I have about sixty engines and I am still looking for a 2 HP Monark air-cooled engine and I think it was made in Des Moines, Iowa. This name was spelled like this MONARK on gas tank lid. The tank was cast iron in the base. I have seen about 1500 different engines and talked to about that number of friends and haven't had any satisfaction. Also, my first engine when I was 12 years old was a Woodmansee-the same as those that make the windmills. I am 68 and wonder why my friends get their magazines several weeks before me.' (I'm sorry Kermit, but we do hear this from quite a few people and the only thing we can say is it has to be a problem of the postal authorities. Perhaps you have a different zip code and it may be routed differently.)

And that brings me to the end of our correspondence-but you know by now we have moved into a nice brick rancher, not far from where we did live-and we are enjoying it. We have an apple tree with three kinds of apples-huge and delicious-and they'll be better next year as we are going to spray, etc. I made quite a few apple pies which I haven't done for too long and then it makes good applesauce and applebutter-which I just couldn't accomplish this year, but one of our daughters used them up. We also have a little pear tree and an English walnut tree. I never realized we had English walnuts around-they have a funny dark coating on them though after they come out of their green shell the squirrels beat us in gathering them up-we are getting some though- now if I just knew how to get that dark covering off??

As we look forward to the end of the year may I leave you with 'The Beauty of a Smile-A smile costs nothing but its value is priceless. It enriches the one who gives it, yet it impoverishes him not. It happens in a flash but the memory may last for days. No one is so rich that he can get along without it. No one is so poor that he cannot affort to give it. A smile generates happiness in the home and good will in business because it says, 'I like you. You pleasure me.' If you meet an acquaintance or a friend who is too busy to give you a smile-leave one of yours. No one needs a smile so much as the person who has none to give. Submitted by Esther Briner, Summerdale, Pennsylvania to the Church Cook Book.

Bye Bye and keep smilin'.