Smoke Rings

Unidentified Engine


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This next writing is from WAYNE GRENNING, 318 Summit Street, Boonville, New York 13309: 'I have just purchased my first antique gas engine and need some assistance in restoring it. There is a brass plate on the top of the hopper. It says 'Engine No. 305620 R.P.M. 475 Horse Power 3FD.' On the side of the hopper behind the magneto there is a stencil that says 'Jaegeur Machine Co., Columbus, Ohio.' On the front of the hopper above the valves there is a decal that says 'Hercules Corporation, Evansville, Indiana U.S.A.' On the base under the magneto there is an oval brass plate that says 'In correspondence always refer to mixer and engine as No. 4 I Model D10H Jaegeur Machine Co., Columbus, Ohio.' My engine has a Wico EK magneto with a kill button. The serial number is 774320.

My first question is: what was the relationship between the Jaegeur Machine Company, and the Hercules Corporation? In some literature I have acquired, the Arco, Economy, the Hercules Corporation and the Jaegeur Machine Company are synonymous. Is this true and what is the relationship between these companies?

Does any reader know the original color of this engine and when it was built?

Thanking your readers for any help with my project.'

This next letter could be very important to a certain individual. Read it as it is typical of the concern for each other in this Gas Engine Family. It comes from BILL HACHTEL, 8901 Smith Road, RD 6, Willoughby, Ohio 44094: 'Six years ago I answered a plea in your column from a Michigan man looking for information on a Euclid Electric & Mfg. Co. engine. In pursuing information I ended up with the name tag for the engine. The engine has since been sold and if the buyer would contact me, he can have the tag.'

HERB PERSING, R.D. 2, Pitts-field, Pennsylvania 16340 has a 3? HP Associated and a 3? HP United-about the only difference is the water hopper, he claims. He would like to know who copied who and what the color of each engine is. And he adds, 'Would like to thank you for a wonderful magazine.'

JAY JOHNSON, 6726 Oleander Circle, Roanoke, Virginia 24019 has a problem: 'I have a Garden tractor made by David Bradley. It has three wheels and is called a Tri-Trac, two 12' wheels in the front and a 16' wheel in the back it is powered by a Wisconsin engine about 6 or 7 HP. You sit over the rear tire when driving this tractor. I have talked to Sears but they do not have any information on it as to the year. See picture. And thanks for any help and also for your help in the past.'

Next-JOHN PIERCE, 13149 Kingston, Huntington Woods, Michigan 48070 writes: 'I have greatly enjoyed Gas Engine Magazine over the past several years and I hope someone can assist with the identification of a small inboard marine gas engine (picture enclosed).

The engine is a two cycle with the letters 'E & M' cast in the intake/exhaust manifold and has a Cuno timer driven by gears and shaft. The flywheel is 9' diameter, piston stroke 2? and bore approximately 2?'. Also any ideas about the original carburetor?

Another letter asking for help comes from ROBERT W. DAVIS, 204 Edgewood Drive, Boone, North Carolina 28607: 'I am restoring a very old Westinghouse vertical gas engine manufactured about 1900, looks like 10 HP or could be 15 HP, flywheels 32', diameter width 3?', ignition by buzz coil and plug or dynamo unit. I need good pictures of the valve, rocker arm, fuel pump and governor units. I have two good pictures from George Kempher of Emporia, PA. Any information you have will help.'

ALVIN SCHROEDER, 414 Pitcher Park, Devils Lake, North Dakota 58301, phone 701-662-3022 writes: 'One of my first engines I purchased was a 3 HP Stover. It is water hopper cooled with open crankshaft and igniter 450 rpm, #W75856. Is there any way I can find out how old it is and any other information about it.

Also I have just purchased a 6 HP Fairbanks Morse Z, 400 rpm. No serial numbers on nameplate-all it says is Patent Applied for. It has open crankshaft and has been converted to spark plug. Any idea what year it is? Also what do you use to seal the movable point on a 1? HP JD igniter? Will appreciate all information.'

Now we have some communication from a fairly new member of the G.E.M. family; DAVID LAURENCE, Box 45, Dexter, Minnesota 55926: 'I am a new subscriber to G.E.M. I have been collecting gas engines about six months. I am hoping that the G.E.M. readers can help me with a couple of my engines.

I need help on getting information on a Webster inverted vertical engine. I believe it to be the same as the 2? HP Webster pictured on page 34 of the Jan.-Feb. G.E.M. owned by Ed Edwards of Big Ben, California. It has 24' flywheels and is blue in color.

I would also like to know anything on what I believe to be a 3 HP McCormick Deering. It is the same in detail and the same blue color as a 1? HP McCormick Deering engine I have, except for the name tag on the water hopper. Instead of the small tag, it had a tag approximately 4?' x 5?'. Any help you readers can give me will be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work on a great magazine. Thank you.'

NORMAN S. JOHNSON, Spirit wood, North Dakota 58481, phone 701-252-2231 sends two pictures of engine which he would like to know the manufacturer and also the value of the engine. It is complete and in running order.

LEO LATRAVERSE, 343 Central Street, Berlin, Massachusetts 01503, phone 617-562-6129 sends this letter: 'I am writing my first letter to you to say what a wonderful job you are doing. Also, I have recently acquired a 4? HP Waterloo Boy gasoline engine, #121070. I have many questions about it. I would appreciate it if any of the fellow readers of GEM would send me any information on it. I would also like to see a snapshot so I can see how original my engine is. My wife and I have been exhibitors at many shows in New England and New York and have attended shows at Portland, Indiana in 1977 and 1978-what a great bunch of people I have met at all the shows that we have shown our engines. Keep up the good work.'

T WHITE, Misery Bluff, Dayton, Montana 59914 needs help: 'Maybe somebody will perhaps help me. A friend gave us an old drag saw mechanism less the saw and wheels. The question is what size and type wheels and what kind of saw? The name is Culver Pat. Jan. & Feb. 1870. It has a wheel near center connected by rod to saw, wheel is 23' diameter. How was this powered and with what, if any? Was it cranked by hand? What color and if hand cranked, what size crank? Any information will help and I will replace your postage. Thanks.'

This following missal comes from LEONARD J. RAHILLY, 1028? Bement Street, Lansing, Michigan 48912: 'Last issue you ran my letter about production dates for IHC tractors. As a result, I received a nice letter from John Cohoon, Steele, Missouri who has several old IHC tractors and who has done more homework than I have on the dates. John tells me that the original Farmall was made 1924-32, F-20 1932-1939, F-30 1931-39 and that IHC changed from grey to red on Nov. 1, 1936, in the interest of better visibility on the road.

I have just started work on an F-20, no serial plate. I guess by the round spoke wheels and old-style governor that the tractor is a '36 or '37.1 saw this bedraggled looking but substantially good tractor behind a house. The owner said, 'She's froze-been there about a year.' I figured more like two years. When the man said he wanted to sell it to a fellow who was going to junk the engine and put in a Chevy, I got out my check book. A four day soak with lots of kerosene freed the pistons and one warm day the engine started. The compression was very poor at first, but has been improving with running it. One cold day I found the transmission stuck. There was about a pint of frozen water in the oil.

I have been tinkering with cars and tractors for years, but am kind of new to restoring. It would be great if experienced restorers would share their successes in removing rusty bolts, freeing stuck engines and other useful tips.

When I was growing up in New Jersey, we used a 7 HP Schram hit-and-miss to operate a hay hoist. I have never seen the Schram engine in any shows in the Midwest. Perhaps there are readers who can tell us something about these engines. We also had a couple of small John Deeres for corn shelling and such jobs. One of the more interesting engines was a Taylor vacuum engine that we used to operate milkers until perhaps 1940. The Taylor had a stepped piston, with a valve in the side of the larger part of the cylinder-rear, nearer flywheel. It was hit-and-miss with a fly-ball governor, very reliable. My father was told that it had been designed as a compressor, but doesn't know if that is true. Anybody out there know about the Taylor? Were there other vacuum pump engines similar to the Taylor?

As long as I'm palavering, I'll pass on a memory of a New Jersey neighbor who kept a 1917 IHC Titan 10-20 until well into the fifties. It had the old angle iron lugs and the wheels were spaced perfectly for corn rows. The lugs did a great job of cutting the corn stubble in front of the disc. We looked forward to fall when we would again hear the old Titan popping along at 500 RPM and about two miles per hour.'

RICHARD BOCKWOLDT, R.R. 1, Dixon, Iowa 52745, phone 319-843-2270 sends this writing: 'I'm sending a picture of a tractor that I am restoring now and I need some information to complete it. It is a Coop tractor, similar to the Huber Model L. Most all castings are on the two tractors are of the same number. It has a VIS 14A Waukesha 4 cylinder engine and engine manufacture date is Nov. 1934. The tractor serial number is 11180 on a piece of metal on the inside of the left rear fender, same style as Huber. I would appreciate help as what color it should be and any other color trim and lettering.

When I found this tractor in Willard, Ohio salvage yard it was painted red with the letters COOP on the radiator painted black. Also I would like to know what they called this tractor. I've been told it is a COOP #1. I don't know. Were there many of these made? Any information will help me restore it back to its original shape.'

An interesting letter comes from ERVIN MARTIN, 7969 Fulton Road, Sterling, Ohio 44276: 'The Augustine Rotary Engine-an article in the G.E.M. Sept.-Oct. 1976 issue describes a highly efficient engine. Used in a large 7-passenger car, it gave as high as 45 miles per gallon of fuel.

If this type of engine were manufactured today and used in modern small light weight autos, I think they would at least get 75 miles per gallon of fuel. The secret of this engine having a better performance than a diesel, seems to be the almost perfect scavenging of exhaust gasses, leaving the cylinder empty to fill up with cool fresh air and fuel, resulting in a powerful clean burn power stroke.

Mr. Augustine received ten patents from 1911 through 1923 for rotary engines. One was a steam model. In 1925 a patent was granted to Augustine Automatic Rotary Engine Company of Buffalo, New York.

I would like to hear from anyone that would like to build one of these engines. I have copies of nine of the latest patents. Does anyone know the location of one of these engines?'

ROBERT STREET, R. 4, Decorah, Iowa 52101 would like some help with his Whitman's Sutton engine. He is missing a part (see want ads) and would like to correspond with anyone who has this kind of engine.

Many questions waiting to be answered-send letters to ROBERT L. BUSH, 11515 Beaver Creek, Salem, Ohio 44460: 'My grandfather left me a United 2? HP gas engine. It was used in his coal mine to pull coal cars out of the shafts. This is my only gas engine and I have disassembled, sand blasted, painted and am well on my way to having it finished. Some questions are unanswered and perhaps your readers can help me out. I want the engine to be as close as possible to the way it was originally. It is a Type A, No. 153966, built in Lansing, Michigan. I would like to know the year it was built.

Also I'm interested in knowing if the engine was pin striped. I know larger horsepower United engines are, but the 2? HP?? I looked for evidence of stripes before sand blasting, but the engine had been repainted, at least part of it. One side of the water hopper was stenciled with the words United 2? HP. Were both sides of the hopper stenciled?? The side that was stenciled was on the belt drive side. Did it have battery ignition to start and switch to mag after warm up? Only the mag is on it, but evidence is present that it may have had both ignition systems.

Last, but not least, I have the original gas tank, round-flat top and bottom like a cooking pot. Was it located in the rear or at the front by the mixer? Grandfather had it mounted by the mixer but pictures of larger horsepower Uniteds show it in the rear. And, was ?' pipe used for gas line?

I realize these questions sound a bit pickey, but I want the engine to be A-1. I'm very proud to own it. I have written and called at least ten people with United engines for sale, looking for answers to these questions, but no one agrees on the answers.

You have a fine publication. Keep up the good work.'

Next letter comes from RICHARD (DICK) HEAVEN, 860 La May, Ypsilanti, Michigan 48197- perhaps you'd like to share it: 'It has been a long time since I have written to you people but have meant to often-(but time).

Well anyway as soon as the choir had sung the 2nd service on Easter we started for California by way of Arkansas. We visited in Arkansas, Kansas and California. I saw a steam engine and some old tractors in Adrian, Texas. I threw a stone in the Pacific Ocean. We stopped at a saw mill in Oregon. I took a quick look at a steam threshing rig in Idaho. We saw Old Faithful in Yellowstone- lots of snow. We stopped in Billings, Montana to visit my stepbrothers, visited a Pastor friend in Wyoming then on to Greeley, Colorado to visit my wife's aged aunt over night. We went on to Nebraska and visited a cousin at Bloomfield on a farm. We had never met before but it wasn't long before we knew that we both liked old tractors (ha). He had two old tractors, a model A, John Deere tractor and one AO John Deere and a model A Ford truck, but then he took us over by Nebrara, Nebraska, to see a man's great collection which took two or three hours that afternoon and then took us out to supper. The next day I tried to help with our family history that I knew about. We went back to the collection of steam engines and tractors. We took pictures of some of the big ones which I had never seen, but had read about. Then we had to hurry home. We were gone three weeks and covered 7,000 miles in a new car.

You know where I had read about all these steam engines and tractors? In your good magazine!'

A picture and a problem from WALT CELLEY, R.R. 1, Cabot, Vermont 05647: 'I have recently traded for an uncommon engine and would like help with the date of manufacture, color and any information I can get. There is a compressor on one side of the engine. It is about 2 HP with very heavy flywheels. There is the remains of very fancy pin striping and it seems to be a well made engine. I think it is a Richmond Standard but the name tag says Granite 2788, Foster & Hosier, Chicago, Illinois. Has anyone heard of a Foster & Hosier engine?

Also I have a restored 15 HP Abenaque portable. I would like to hear from anyone having a 15 HP or larger Abenaque.'

JOHN LEVORA, Route 2, Box 240, Bangor, Michigan 49013 sends this one: 'I have acquired an old 1 cylinder air cooled diesel engine, which I believe was built by American Marc Engine Co. in California. I would like to know if they still exist or are gone forever. The last time they advertised was 1963. The model I have appears to be 1940 circa. Also would like to acquire a Caterpillar 22 parts and service manual (see want ads.)'

A third letter comes in this month from DOC SCHUSTER, 3535 Glen Oak Drive, Eugene, Oregon 97405- has a good deal more information that we hope the readers will like to hear: 'Since last writing to you, more letters on John Deere engines have arrived. Here are two good ideas for those who need crankcase ventilation:

(1)  Rifle drill the front crankcase cover bolt through the head with a hole about 1/8 diameter to a depth of approximately 1?' deep. Then drill a connecting hole that is also 1/8' diameter through the bolt shank to meet the bottom of the previous hole. This provides ventilation when the crankcase lid is bolted down. And/or.....

(2)  Remove the rivets from the serial number plate that hold it to the governor plate, and leave the holes open. There is very little oil vapor in the governor box while the engine is running and oil will not blow out of the holes.

The advantage of these two suggestions is that extra holes through the crankcase lids are obviated.

Another plausible explanation for lubrication to the magneto gear-side bearing is as follows: oil is thrown against the inner 'roof' of the crankcase cover. From there it runs down the magneto plate. Part of this oil drips onto the magneto gear shroud and is thrown off, but a smaller part runs onto the end of the magneto case and into the bearing oil reservoir.

Sounds complicated but it makes sense, especially if the reader draws a cross-section of the area.

Correspondents seemed to be unanimous about two things concerning John Deere engines: they are relatively oily, but when set up properly are easy to start and run beautifully.'

A short letter and some information comes in this writing by H. L. RITTER, Route 5, Box 127, Fulton, New York 13069: 'Well, it is nearly snow time again here in central New York. Sometime ago, I asked about the master coil. I received several letters about it. I have some to answer yet. They all tell the same things and so I am sending copies of some diagrams and advertising received-hoping they can be copied in G.E.M. for you all to see.

We have had it exceptionally warm so far this year. My engines are all stored for the winter. Won't be doing much with them before next April or May.'

The diagrams, ads, etc. are shown on page 23.

That about ends it for this time, my friends-but in closing, I'd like to leave this bit of verse with you-I'm sure it hits home with many of us. Called DIRTY DISHES-Thank God for dirty dishes, they have a tale to tell; while other folks go hungry, we are eating very well. With home and health and happiness, we shouldn't want to fuss, for by the stack of evidence, God's very good to us-Bye Bye-Love La!