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23/4/30A Photo by B. Pump

B. Pump

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This past month's mail brought in a couple of letters critical of the Reflector's comments on engine operation at shows back in the December, 1987 issue. The criticism seems to be back on our comments regarding smoke and exhaust noise, with one writer asking the Reflector whether we were running an engine show or a Sunday School picnic?

Ye olde Reflector takes the blame here for not stating our case as well as we might have in the first place, so : let's put it as clearly and succinctly as possible. Let's set up a little scenario-Here's some big, scruffy old engine, barely able to run, but still managing to wheeze its way along, albeit with considerable soot, smoke, and oil. Now this grand old nondescript engine has no exhaust pipe whatever, and the gaping hole in the side of the cylinder head is aimed right at the aisle way where the spectators walk by. Along comes a citified pair, overwhelmed by what they see, and having no idea at all of what they are seeing, or what will come next. This pair is dressed to the hilt, she in her $250 designer creation, he in his $400 suit straight from Hong Kong or wherever. Just as they walk by the old nondescript, smoke-belching, oil-spewing engine she gives out a bang, with our citified couple catching the full charge of oil and soot. After the smoke clears, chances are fairly good that somebody will be buying this couple some new (and high-priced) clothes. Worst of all, this couple, and probably most of their friends, will never again have anything to do with a gas engine show.

While written as a 'worst case' scenario, the Reflector is sure that this has happened more than once at the steam and gas engine show. The point is this-and we probably did not state our case in sufficiently rigorous terms-a simple dose of common sense could eliminate, or at least minimize, these occurrences.

As we stated previously, a few exhibitors seem to relish the assembly of so-called resonators to the exhaust, making it even louder than it ordinarily is. Now that's fine for a while, but it gets tiresome after listening to it for a show of 4 or 5 days. The same thing holds true for some of the two-cycle engines using oil in the fuel. Either through actual intent or through their own ignorance, some exhibitors seem to think more is better. Many show veterans can recall seeing such exhibitors with a whole litter of these 'little smokers' all doing their stuff and creating an immense cloud of white smoke.

The Reflector doesn't by any means hold to the idea that our old engines should sit around at a show idle, but in fact, the opposite is true! We think that exhibitors should have their engines running every day. But again, we stand in defense of our previous statements-we don't think it shows any professionalism in our hobby to choke spectators and other exhibitors with clouds of dense smoke that are completely unnecessary. Likewise, we can see no evidence of common sense in placing an engine's exhaust so that it blows right out into the spectators or other exhibitors. If not the problem of smoke and oil, then consider that a youngster or oldster standing at eye level with the exhaust could be gravely injured by a piece of flying carbon coming at an eye with dynamite force! Once again we state our case... be careful! Be careful not just for yourself, but be careful for others. Care, courtesy, and common sense- the three C's will go a long' way toward making our hobby even better than it is today!

23/4/1Q. I'm new to the gas engine hobby and would like to know the color of the following engines: Empire, by Empire Cream Separator Co.; Hired Man, by Associated Manufacturers; and Perkins Windmill Co., Model H. Also need information and some dimensions for an Aeromotor pumping engine-mine is missing some parts. Paul W. Hartman, Route 2, Box 236, Rocky Fork Road, Smyrna, Tennessee 37167.

A. We have DuPont 93-2622-H listed for Associated but do not have definite numbers for the other engines requested.

23/4/2Q. John Preston, 2455 Hickory Lawn, Rochester, Michigan, 48063, asks: I am going to restore a Cushman 2-cycle engine, Model 2, Type A, ? HP. What is, a) the correct color; b) correct gas tank; c) type of mounting; d) what it was used on; e) the year made. See adjacent photo.

A. In response to a) we assume that it was either black or the usual Cushman green, DuPont 93-62713-H. b) and c) we cannot answer; d) probably a washing machine, and e) probably in the 1930's.

23/4/3Q. Can anyone supply information on this Model A Ford conversion tractor. The name 'Peru' is cast into the front and rear wheel hubs. Any information at all on the firm building this conversion will be greatly appreciated. (See photo). Thomas R. Evans, American Truck Historical Society, P.O. Box 59200, Birmingham, Alabama, 35259.

A. Our records, etc. show nothing on 'Peru' but perhaps one of our readers has heard of this company.

23/4/4Q. We need help concerning a large Charter engine we have acquired. It has a 10 1/2 x 18 inch bore and stroke. First of all, what is the proper color? We have found traces of what appears to be a very dark gray or a bluish black similar to a weathered Fairbanks-Morse color. We also need information on how the fuel was delivered to the air intake-it seems there might be something missing here. Ignition is low tension with a large Webster magneto. Information on starting is also needed. Our engine resembles the one on lower left hand corner, page 95 of American Gas Engines. Any information or help will be appreciated. Rich and Wayne Krumm, 13,075 West Watson Road, Sunset Hill, Missouri, 63127.

A. We've only seen a couple of Charter engines, and they were a dark gray color-we do not have a color match listed. Some photos would be helpful in determining what might be needed for the carburetion. One of our readers might be able to determine this after studying the photos. Since a Webster magneto is used, the engine was probably started as follows: Prime the engine with gasoline, and leaving priming cup open and decompression lever engaged, pull the engine through one complete cycle, stopping the flywheels just past the point where the magneto trips. Taking the engine through a cycle will help to vaporize the priming fuel. Cock the trip handle on the Webster magneto. Now roll the flywheels back nearly to the outside dead center. Roll it forward as quickly as possible, and when it is well ahead with the charge fairly compressed, trip the starting handle on the magneto, and the engine should fire. This procedure will no doubt require some fine tuning to get consistent results, and as we try to emphasize constantly, use care in all these procedures.

23/4/5Q. Recently I came into this gas engine business quite by accident, but boy did I ever get hooked! The engine in the photo is my first, and it runs pretty good, but I need to know more about it. I am told it is either an Economy or a Hercules, but would like to know for sure if possible. Is there a particular type of paint or primer that works best? I have a lot to learn about this hobby, but sure would appreciate any help. Gerald L. Phillips, 2143 Thomas, Berkley, Michigan, 48072.

A. We believe your engine to be a Hercules, and as such, it should be finished with Rustoleum #1382 Forest Green. We suggest buying the finish from a professional paint dealer who can make the proper recommendations on priming and sealing metal.

23/4/6Q. I have an Avery 'A' tractor and need to know where to find the serial number, plus the proper number for the red finish enamel. Would also like to find manuals or photocopies for same, plus production figures, and other data on these tractors. Any help will be appreciated. Dick Golden, RR 1, Box 88, Armington, Illinois, 61721.

A. We can't give you any data on this model, but since there are quite a few requests for the late model Avery tractors, perhaps one of our readers knowledgeable on the subject would like to grace the pages of GEM with an in-depth look at this company.

23/4/7Q. See photos 23/4/7A and B illustrating a Toro engine and a small burr mill. Can anyone supply information on this engine or identify the make of the mill? Clair Bahrenfuse, Rt 2, Box 192, Kellogg, Iowa, 50135.

A. The Reflector draws a blank here... we were previously unaware of a Toro engine of this design!

23/4/8Q. Sometime ago I acquired this little engines it is said to have been used on a small yard railcar at a manufacturing plant in Detroit. The engine is of two-cycle design with a Tillitson carburetor. A single 12-inch flywheel is used. Any information will be appreciated. Donald ). Trosper, 572 Margaret Dr., Chesapeake, Virginia, 23322.

A. We're convinced this was originally a railroad handcar engine, but we are not sure it was built by Fairmont, one of the largest builders of this special style. Perhaps one of our readers can provide a positive ID on this engine.

23/4/9Q. I recently obtained a Friend engine by Friend Mfg. Company, Gasport, New York. Did Friend build a large number of these engines? Would like to hear from anyone with any information on them. Dave Banas, 663 Alpine Drive, Southbridge, MA 01550-3959.

A. Since the vast majority of the Friend engines were built specifically for the Friend orchard and vineyard spraying outfits, it would not seem that a great number were built, although 'quantity built' when it comes to gas engines is a subjective term. As an example, we have it on good authority that only a handful of engines were built by Angola Engine Company at Angola, Indiana even though the tone and tenor of their magazine advertising would lead the reader to believe that this must have been one of the industry biggies back around 1910. Mr. Banas also sent us a copy of a letter which appears in the next caption:

23/4/10Dave Banas sends us a photocopy of a communication from Mr. George L. Caddick, Hercules Mfg. Co., Box 497, Henderson, KY 42420. Mr. Caddick states that the Jaeger engines manufactured by Hercules should be painted similar to DuPont Dulux 5183 DH medium blue. This information should be helpful to Jaeger engine owners having the model built by Hercules.

23/4/11Q. Dave Lumsden, HC 61, Box 4085, Cle Elum, WA 98922 sends along a photo of his Bates 45 crawler with a Waukesha 4-cylinder engine. Dave would like to hear form other Bates owners, and get any information possible on restoration, along with the proper color scheme of same.

23/4/12Q. I just bought a Lister vertical engine, 5 horsepower, and said to be a 1907 model. Can you supply me with any addresses where I might get information on this engine. Mike Comeau, PO Box 398, Derby Line, VT 05829.

A. We can't tell you where to write, but since GEM travels extensively overseas, we are hopeful that some of our overseas readers might be able to help you. However, a photo or nameplate information would be most helpful.

23/4/13Q. In the October, 1987 GEM die recommendation was made that stationary engines used for display purposes should be timed to fire on dead center. I would like to point out that not all engines will run well, or may not run at all when timed to fire on dead center because these engines were designed and built to fire well before dead center.

I have a 2 HP Waterloo Boy Type H engine with a Wizard magneto which is an example of this. This engine will not run well unless its timing is set so that in the advanced position, ignition occurs at about 45 degrees before dead center, otherwise the engine coughs, wheezes, and has no power. I learned this by trial and error, through which I discovered that the saw cut mark on the pushrod of this engine corresponds to 45 degrees before dead center. The reprint of the owners manual which we got from the John Deere archives also states to the effect that the timing should be set so that the engine fires at 45 degrees before dead center in the advanced position. Michael Bond, 3594 Test Road, Richmond, IN 47374.

A. In the case of the Waterloo Boy engine with the peculiar knee-joint igniter trip mechanism, the timing mark might well have to be somewhat ahead of dead center when making the adjustment, due to the considerable lag time required for all of this linkage to do its duty. This was one of the major problems with oscillating low tension magnetos-even the best of them did not work well after about 1,000 rpm, since there was not enough time for things to happen between firing times. In the case of the Waterloo Boy, we would hazard a guess that the 45 degree advance probably melts to 20 or 25 degrees, perhaps even less than that when the engine is running at say 500 rpm. The more linkage involved, the longer it takes to complete the cycle of events, and when normal wear with loose joints intervenes, that throws the entire sequence out of kilter.

23/4/14Q. I would appreciate some opinions in regard to reducing the size of the exhaust outlet in order to facilitate the use of a certain muffler. Might this cause serious damage to the engine? I sometimes use a modern tractor muffler or even a straight pipe so that cold air does not hit the valves when the engine is stopped, causing them to warp. Any advice will be appreciated. Syl Henry, 1027 Harding Street, Janesville, Wisconsin, 53545.

A. Mr. Henry brings up some excellent points. Personally, we don't believe that reducing the muffler by a single pipe size, say from 1? to 1? inch pipe is going to make a whole lot of difference, especially when the engine is not working under a load. One effect of throttling the exhaust will be the tendency to retain heat, and of course, that's not good. In fact, replacing a conventional muffler with a vertical straight pipe will reduce the backpressure enough so that a hit-and-miss engine will not boil nearly so soon as with a muffler in place. Too great a restriction on the exhaust passage can also create problems on the idle strokes, particularly if the engine is not equipped with an intake valve lock. The restricted passage can create enough negative pressure within the cylinder that the intake valve will flutter, thus wasting fuel. We totally agree with Mr. Henry that in the absence of the original muffler at least a vertical straight pipe should be installed. This diverts the exhaust blast away from the engine and away from spectators, while at the same time preventing cold air from reaching the very hot exhaust passages and valves.

23/4/15Carey D. Wood, Mitchell, Indiana 47446 would like to hear from anyone with a 25 HP Superior sideshaft engine. He needs help with running it on LP-gas. Mr. Wood may also be contacted at 812-849-5848 between 8AM and 2PM only on weekdays.

23/4/16Q. Our 1905, 3 HP International upright engine (as on page 244 of American Gas Engines) has serial No. 1953 with an 'E' stamped on beneath the serial number. What does this designate? Was there any striping on this engine? Also, what is the color and year built for a Dempster 1? HP, s/n 7828? Did it have any striping? Don Stier, 3706 E 22, Spokane, Washington, 99223.

A. The 'E' suffix probably indicates the type of mounting, i.e., skids, stationary, portable, etc. We believe even the very early IHC verticals had at least some striping, but the exact style seemed to vary with the person applying the paint, so giving a definite answer is rather difficult. We have no age data on Dempster, but our records show them to be comparable to DuPont 93-046 green.

23/4/17Q. We recently acquired this Delco-Light four-cylinder engine. It is air-cooled, using copper fins attached to the outside of the cylinder walls. The total length is 24 inches. Unfortunately, the generator is missing. The engine is quite similar to the 'copper-cooled' Chevrolet of the early 1920's. I don't think the engine was an experimental model since there are several instructions cast into both the inside and outside of the aluminum valve cover. The generator, carburetor, and most of the fuel system is missing. Otherwise it is in good condition. Any help in further identification or, any other information will be greatly appreciated. H. W. Ellison, 1635 Ford Court, Grosse Pointe Woods, Michigan 48236.

A. Our reaction is probably similar to your first reaction: I never knew that Delco built an engine that looked like that! Beyond that, we hope that someone in engine land can shed some light on this interesting little engine.

23/4/18Q. Can you supply the proper paint color for an R&V Triumph Line engine. We thought it to be John Deere Green, but have found some paint of a much darker shade. Marcus Comes, 19506 Kemple Drive, Bend, Oregon 97702

A. We have DuPont 93-5316 listed as a comparable color match.

23/4/19Q. Can you supply the proper color for a 1911 Waterloo Boy gas engine? Louis Feller, 7405 Beebe Road, Lynden, Washington 98264.

A. Our listing shows DuPont 93-046 green as a comparable color.

23/4/20Q. Can anyone supply the proper color for a Taylor Vacuum engine, also year built? Keith Johnson, RR 1, Box 112, Hector, Minnesota 55342.

A. We have no color number for the Taylor. It is doubtful that any production records are available.

23/4/21Q. Regarding a Gray Model S,4 or 6 HP marine engine, s/n 14587. Can anyone tell me the year built and original color scheme? Is there a successor to Gray Engine Company that might have some information? J. A. Kovacs, 789 Upland Ave., Campbell River, B.C. V9W 2A8 Canada.

A. Gray appears to have specialized in marine engines after 1920, but we have no information regarding their lineage after that time.

23/4/22Q. I have a 6 HP McCormick-Deering engine, s/n CW19916, Pat. No. 1,509,380. Can you tell me the year built? Also, the wooden parts on the wagon have been removed, so 1 would like to correspond with anyone having the original dimensions. All letters will be answered. Glenn Burroughs, 317 Hunting Lane, Goode, Virginia, 24556.

A. Your engine was built in 1930. We presume some of our readers might have one of these engines on its original truck mounting and would supply you with the needed dimensions.

23/4/23Russell Haines, Rt 14, Box 369A, Tallahassee, Florida 32304 would like information on a 2V4 HP Smyth Bros, engine. Call collect after 7 p.m., 904/576-5815.

23/4/24Paul Reno, Oakland, Colorado favors us with a photo of a 2-horse treadmill built in 1859 by E. Whitman Agricultural Works, Auburn, Maine. Mr. Reno couples this machine to a Daniel Best Grain Cleaner built in 1870. This treadmill is missing the original wood transport wheels, so I would like to hear from anyone who knows where I might inquire in this regard.

23/4/25Q. Can you supply color schemes for: 1) Standard Twin garden tractor; 2) Viking garden tractor; 3) Shaw Do-All tractor; and 4) McCormick-Deering 10-20 tractor. Hoy Dove, Jr., RR 1, Box 149-B, Mathias, WV 26812.

A. Only for the 10-20 can we tell you the scheme-either DuPont 98620 Gray or 6923 Gray, with IHC red on the wheels.

23/4/26Q. A friend recently found a Leader tractor with an Auburn Ohio factory address. All other Leader tractors we have seen use the Chagrin Falls, Ohio address. Which was first? Also, are the serial numbers stamped in the dash on the Leader tractors? Wm. Flowers, RR 1, Box 332, Adena, Ohio 43901.

A. Answers to this question will have to come from somebody besides the Reflector-we never before knew that Leader built anything at Auburn.

23/4/27Q. I have a Standard Twin garden tractor, s/n 340357. Does the prefix mean it was a 1934 model? Also, are there any old Standard dealers left with parts for these garden tractors? Frank Warburton, P.O. Box 701, Newtown, Connecticut, 06470.

A. The theory you suggest regarding the prefix might indeed be correct- we don't know. Likewise, we haven't heard of anyone with N. O. S. parts for the Standard Twin.

23/4/28Q. Fred A. Kurtz, Rt 2, Box 276, River Fails, Wisconsin 54022, follows with a similar request on a Standard garden tractor. Mr. Kurtz needs to find engine parts for the two-cylinder engine. The number is 401C6019.

23/4/29Q. What is the year built for a Stover engine s/n TB260561? Arthur J. Brochu Jr., Hazelton Rd, Rowe, MA 01367.

A. Your engine was built March 9, 1939.

23/4/30Q. On page 20 of the October 1987 GEM, you make mention of the Detroit engines. My engine has a nameplate (see photo) with the numbers 2 92 stamped into it. Could this be the month and year of production? Also on page 130 of American Gas Engines it is stated that there was very little change in designs over the years. Yet, to look at the one on page 130 compared with the one from Sweden referred to above, plus my engine in the photo, they are all different. The barrel on mine is not on the wrong way; the stud pattern and casting shape won't permit it and the exhaust and carby to line up as per the Sweden one. The one on page 130 of American Gas Engines is quite different again. Ian Matthews, 3 Kaoriki Court, Condon, 4815, Queensland, Australia.

A. Apparently the Detroit engines were exported from the United States in somewhat larger numbers than has been previously thought. This would account for some of them landing in Sweden, and still others in Australia. We greatly doubt that the numbers stamped into the nameplate have any significance regarding the year built. So far as the obvious differences between the three different examples pointed out above, we have no idea of the reason for these derivations.

23/4/31Q. Can anyone supply information as to when New Holland built the mill like the one in this photo? This one is a No. 6 mill with 6 inch burrs, a 13 inch flywheel, and built by New Holland Machine Co., New Holland, PA. Any information will be appreciated. Ray Scott, 851 3rd St. NW, Valley City, ND 58072.

A. We would guess these mills to have been built in the early 1900's, and perhaps earlier. New Holland must have built a considerable number of them, since they occasionally appear at various places in the Midwestern states, a long way from New Holland, Pennsylvania. Possibly the company might be able to give some more specific information.

23/4/32Mr. and Mrs. Ralph M. Olds, Box 355, Douglas, WY 82633 are looking for information on restoring a 25-50 Avery tractor and an Alamo 6 HP gas engine. Any information will be appreciated.

23/4/33Q. Can you identify this engine? (see photo). The tag reads: Engine #303963; RPM 550; H. P. 2GH. The original color appears to have been a greenish blue. It was hooked up to a 2 cylinder Hardie water pump. W. O. Bailey, 1160 E. Columbus St., Martinsville, IN 46151.

A. From the color and general appearance, we would surmise this to be an ARCO engine as sold by Hardie Mfg. Co., primarily for use with their orchard sprayers. This particular one was probably built by Hercules.

23/4/34In the April, 1987 issue of GEM there is a picture of this engine (see photo) before restoration. It is all original, even down to the spark coil. I had lots of letters from other collectors on restoring this engine and wish to publicly thank everyone who wrote. The engine came 30 miles from home and was used by an elderly gentleman to run his feed grinder. Charles Riley, 5670 Delisle &. Fourman Rd., Arcanum, OH 45304.

23/4/35R. M. Gates, Bender Implement Co., Somerset, PA 15501, is restoring a McCormick-Deering Ideal Reaper as built from 1907-1935. In this process they need to know the color scheme of the parts so as to make the restoration historically accurate. Since the reaper is in mint condition except for a new paint job, any information would be greatly appreciated.