Drag saw engine

30/11/3 A

Gene Johnston

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As we prepare our November issue, C. H. Wendel is leading our European Extravaganza, so we are filling in for him as well as we can. There may not be many answers this month, but the questions will appear as usual, and hopefully the many correspondents who provide answers will help us to fill in this month.

30/11/1 Q. I am a subscriber to GEM and I have just recently become interested in antique tractors. Just the other day I bought a 1929 McCormick Deering 10-20.I am planning on restoring it and I was wondering if you knew of any place where I could get some pictures of it all restored. Brian Turney, 15 Carey Rd., Succasunna, NJ 07876.

A. The best response for you would probably be from a fellow reader and experienced restorer who has taken on one of these tractors. We'll hope that someone will send you a color picture of his/her project!

30/11/2 Q. I would like to hear from anyone with information on a David Bradley two-wheeled garden tractor, model #917.575112A. This is the one powered by a 5.6 horsepower Wisconsin engine. Manuals for this particular model are not currently available from GEM advertisers. All letters will be answered. Tom Gipson, 202 Mary Sharp Drive, Decherd, TN 37324.

A. Can someone help on this one?

30/11/3 Q. Gene Johnston of Rt. J Box 221-P, Carl Junction, MO 64834 sends us three rubbings from I.D. plates and asks when these engines were built.

A. The numbers are hard to read from the rubbings, but appear to be as follows: 30/11/3 A is from a drag saw engine, No. B6145; 30/11/3B is from an Alamo 3 HP No. 64597; 30/11/3C is from an Alamo 1 HP No. 104142. Can anyone help with this question?

30/11/4 Q. I have a Witte 2 HP, serial number B5594. Could you please tell me the year built and its original color? Also, I am missing the gasoline valve (left hand one) ; does anyone have specs for this valve? Found with this engine was some steel running gear. Forging numbers of EA69, EA70 and EA71 can be seen. Is this Witte running gear or what? Mark Fessenden, 3006 N. Triphammer Road, Lansing, NY 14882.

A. Keep in mind as we answer that we're not the expert Mr. Wendel is, but here goes.

Wendel's Notebook indicates that Witte manufactured Type B and Type C throttling governor engines from January 1922 through September 1927, with serial numbers B2546 through B8849 being manufactured in 1923. Regarding the paint color, Witte gasoline engines were painted a color closely approximate to PPG 40952 Forest Green (one pint of Rustoleum black to 2 pints Rustoleum Forest Green); Witte diesels vary in color, some being PPG 33296 Embassy Gray, some Ditzler 32711 Gray.

We hope someone out there can help with the other questions you've got.

30/11/5 Q. Since marine engines are my favorite, I took special interest in these ads from 1908 Saturday Evening Post. Wayne McPherson, 535 County Road 635, Cape Girardeau, MO 6370J.

A. Thanks for sharing these unusual ads with us.

30/11/6 Q. I need information on when the following engines were built. Both are 3 HP John Deere engines. The first is serial number 308951 (this one has embossed letters 'Manufactured by John Deere Tractor Company, Waterloo, Iowa, U.S.A. Type E 3 HP 550 rpm.'' The second one is serial number 363854. Alden C. Barton, 6742 Thorp Hwy .So., Ellensburg, WA 98926.

A. The first was manufactured in 1929; the second in 1945.

30/11/7 Q. I recently purchased two of these Delco Lite plants, manufactured by General Motors Corp. They are smaller than usual and original paint is red. Other than the printing that one unit has on the electrical control box, as one photo shows, I cannot find any identification numbers or plates.

Also I can't find any listings of operating manuals or parts lists. I need a wiring diagram as well. I would appreciate help from anyone. Marvin Tayloe, 461 Sappington Br. Rd., Sullivan, MO 63080.

A. We know of only two of our own advertisers who have traditionally specialized in Delco light plants: Kotrba, Brook Rd., Hampton CT 06247, and Wayne Sphar, RD 2,211 A, Avella, PA 15312. If there are others who can help, let us know so we can share the information.

30/11/8 Q. I have a pump with these identification marks: Gould-Seneca Falls NY. No. 4451 on the housing; 4059 on the base; 4510 on pulley; Goulds GA 35. Would like to know the year and the color. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I enclose a picture. David Krueger, Rt-1 Box 135, Blackduck, MN 56630.

A. Any help on this one?

30/11/9 Q. I would appreciate any info you may have on the following engines:

2 HP John Lauson, serial number W 58144, color and year; 5 HP Galloway, serial number 20337, year; 2 HP Jaeger, serial number 290873, year; 2 HP Witte, serial number 33513, year and any other info. Elton Wilson, Rt. 6, Box 156, Santa Fe, NM 87501.

A. The Witte is 1917, dates for the others are unknown to us, although Glenn Karch's book on Hercules engines may be of some help to you on the Jaeger.

Color match for the Jaeger is DuPont 5183-DH Blue; for the Galloway, Centari 5027 Red; for the Witte, Dulux 93-5800 Green.

30/11/10 Q. See photo of a Walter E. Dunn engine (on Wendel's American Gas Engines). It is missing the carb, gas tank, water hopper and the nameplate. I would like to contact anyone who owns one of these engines for information on the horsepower, as well as the hopper and nameplate sizes! The head is 5 wide, the flywheel 12', and the flywheel pulley is 5?'. The engine is painted blue. James E. Slyh ,1698 Vallombrosa Ave., Chico, CA 95926.

A. Calling all Dunn owner scan someone assist James?

30/11/11Q. I have been restoring a 1925 Sattley serial #57607 made for Montgomery Ward. I would appreciate the correct color for this engine. It appears to be a dark green from what I can find under the rust. Walter Schlenvogt, RR 1 Box 52B, Crivitz, WI 54114.

A. Our records on this question indicate a Dupont 7498 Green or Dupont 93-046 should provide the proper match.

30/11/12Q. Here is a picture of a 1930s Moto-Mower that I just picked up. It is model No. M40908, powered by a Briggs & Stratton WM engine which was built in November of 1936. It seems original and runs well. I would like to find out the original paint colors and locate an owners manual, parts list, advertisements, or any other information concerning this mower. If anyone can help, I would certainly appreciate it. Bob Learned, 1754 Curtner Ave., San Jose, C A 95124-1207.

A. This is another one we'll have to turn over to our readers.

30/11/13 Q. Recently I acquired two hit and miss engines, about which I know very little. As they had not been running in seven or eight years, the magnetos have become weak and I need to have them recharged. Here is the information on the plates. I'd like to know the age and anything else I can find out about these engines.

1) Associated Mfr Co Waterloo Iowa 2 HP Serial No 37650. This is an air cooled. 2) No nameplate visible: engine no. 109682, rpm 550, HP l E. I was told by a friend it is a Hercules engine it has a Webster magneto and is water-cooled.

As I am unfamiliar with this type of engine, I would appreciate any help. Robert Myers, 5 Heaters Lane, P.O. Box 149, Layton, NJ 07851-0149.

A. Once again, we refer you to Glenn Karch (see his article further on in this issue for address information) on the possible Hercules engine. His book on those engines addresses the serial number issue, but it's hard to pinpoint where yours falls on the Hercules timeline.

Regarding the Associated, we hope someone out there in Engine land can help Robert with this one.

30/11/14 Q. I recently purchased a White Lily Gasoline Engine No. 523, manufactured by White Lily Washer Co., Davenport, Iowa. It is an upright, air cooled, 2 HP. I would like to correspond with other owners of White Lily engines. I need parts and HELP! Carroll G. Gum, Rt. 2 Box 125, Camden. WV 26338.

A. ARE there any White Lily owners out there?

30/11/15 Q. I have recently acquired a 2 HP Cray Brothers Engine Co. engine. According to information in American Gasoline Engines, the Cray Brothers engines were built in a Waterloo, Iowa, factory. My question is, does anyone know what factory produced these engines? Also, I would like to talk to anyone who owns one of these engines. If you would call collect or write to: Bill Kessler, 16551 Bennett Rd., N. Royalton, OH 44133. Phone 216-582-1192.

A. Are there any Cray Brothers engine owners out there who can help Bill? While we know that Cray Brothers was itself located in Cleveland, Ohio, we rarely hear from any current owners of these engines.

30/11/16 Q. I have an old General tractor made by the Cleveland Tractor Company, which I am restoring. I have everything working well and the whole tractor has been sandblasted. My problem is I do not know what the original color of the tractor was or how to obtain original decals.

This is a neat old tractor with a single bottom plow mounted under the frame and the optional electric system attached. I am looking forward to finishing this project so that I can share my 'toy' with other enthusiasts. If you have any information about the paint and decals or anything else you think may be helpful, I would be most appreciative. Ed Bonnette, 5840 Deep Cut Rd., Spencerville, OH 45887. 419-647-6190, home phone.

A. I hope some General collectors can help Ed with his project! According to Wendel's Encyclopedia of American Farm Tractors, the wheel-type General GG was offered from 1938-1941.

30/11/17 Q. I would like to know the year of manufacture on the following:

Witte Jr. Headless, 2 HP, serial#8383; Witte 3 HP, serial #97755; Witte 4 HP, serial #95612; Fuller & Johnson 3 HP, serial #64725.

I also have a Witte Diesel with no tag on the engine. It powered a generator and on the door of the switchgear is the following: Witte Engine Works, Serial # SB5888W, Model #10 A3, Size 8000 W, Volts 151230, Type AK. Does the model number also denote HP? And can you tell me the year of manufacture? Dave Stewart, 800 N. Page Springs Rd., Cornville, AZ 86325. Phone 520-634-9265.

A. Your Witte engine dates, in the order you've given the numbers, are 1912, 1937 and 1936 (#95612 being the first number listed for that year in Wendel's Notebook). The Fuller & Johnson is 1918. We have nothing on the generator engine.

30/11/18 Q. Would you supply me with the year built and colors of the following engines?

Jumbo model TA, #19139, 1 HP; International Harvester LA, #LAA20035, l-2 HP; Fairbanks Morse Z, style C, #816671,3 HP.

Any information you can give on these engines will be most appreciated. G. R. Corley, RR3 Box 88X, Grapeland, TX 75844.

A. We can't help you with the Jumbo; Your LA was manufactured in 1936; the F-M Z, in 1940.

30/11/19 Q. I found this copy that had come from an old catalog of a 1927' Maytag 'never needs service' washing machine in one of my old Bottle News magazines (Vol. 7, No. 72December 1978). Note it has a ' 'fruit jar' engine mounted on it. Thought it would be interesting, as the write up in American Gasoline Engines Since 1872 states on that the engine went out of production in 1919. There must have been a lot of leftover engines for them to last to at least l927! Robert A. Le Baron, 5801 E. 5thSt., Tucson, AZ85711.

A. We're including this item, as Robert thought it might generate some interest, and we agree!

30/11/20 Q. What is the date of manufacture and to whom was sold Witte headless 8 HP Serial 37026?

The three pictures are of an Onan 1 cylinder, air cooled diesel generator set, probably used in marine service. No name/model tag. Numbers cast in side of block: 4 0 CUF, 7-27-56 P 708. Onan thinks it may be model UF, but have no parts/service literature available. Any assistance on identification and literature greatly appreciated. Note, item sticking up on top of cylinder head shroud is the fuel strainer bowl, not in its normal location. J. Max Koone, Route 5 Box 32, Rutherfordton, NC 28139.

A. Unfortunately, we can shine no light here, but call on our readers to try to help out!


30/6/38 Enterprise Mill

Dennis Spark of P.O. Box 19, Goomalling, 6460, West Australia, sent us a copy of the letter he sent in reply to Allen Duncan, and this picture (RW-1) of his own Enterprise mill collection. From his letter: 

The one on the front left is the same size as yours, shown in 30/6/38 in GEM. The yellow stripe on the hopper is on all Enterprise mills that I have seen except one, but I have only seen the star in the center of the wheel on No. 50 mills.

I also have two more Red Chief mills, both different to the one in the photo, also a Springfield Ball bearing Grist Mill, Slazer Mfg. Co., Springfield, O. and a Husqvama, Sweden, same size as the Enterprise No. 750 but with a different flywheel.

I also have an Enterprise No. O millit is smaller than the others and has an S-shaped handle like a mincer. All Enterprise mills that I have seen here have been black with the yellow hopper stripe except for one No. 750 that was red Japan varnish and no stripe.

30/9/13 Rare F&J Knockoff

The engine pictured in 30/9/13 can be found on  Verne Kindschi's The Fuller & Johnson Story. This is an unlicensed copy of the Fuller &. Johnson farm pump engine, produced by the Manitoba Pump and Engine Company of Canada. According to former Fuller & Johnson employee, Sever Thingstead, Fuller &. Johnson brought a successful lawsuit against the Manitoba company which was forced to halt production of the engine and pay a cash settlement to Fuller & Johnson.

Mr. Durham has found a rare engine with a colorful history. Tom Gipson, 202 Mary Sharp Drive, Decherd, TN 37324.

30/9/21 Help With Model Sawmill

Back in 1986 I built a quarter scale working model of an American sawmill. At that time I corresponded with a company that had taken over the American Sawmill company. As I remember they were not very helpful in building the model. They were probably more interested in potential customers. I ended up getting the information that I required from an old Salt Lake Hardware catalog and taking measurements from a couple of the real mills here in the area. I don't remember where or how I acquired their address, but for your information here it is:

Knockums Cancar Corp. P.O. Box 987 Talladega. AL 35160

The person that I corresponded with was Fran Wilson in Engineering.

Incidentally, George Broad, editor of Model Tec Magazine, tells me that they are going to start publishing construction plans for my little mill 'soon.' They finished redrawing the plans to their format several months ago. Birk Peterson, 557 East 3460 North, Provo, Utah 84604.

A Closing Word

An interesting note appeared in the August issue of 'Sparks Off The Anvil,' newsletter of the Saskatchewan Western Development Museum, which may be interesting to our engine collectors who are also philatelists:

'Brian Garagan, Manager, Media and Community Affairs in Winnipeg, was in Saskatoon to present a framed enlargement of a recently issued postage stamp. The presentation was made on July 29 at Harvest fest and was accepted on behalf of WDM by Tom Waiser, Manager of Boomtown.

'The framed picture shows a 1950 Cockshutt 30 farm tractor portrayed on one of six stamps commemorating Canada's farm and frontier vehicles. The stylish Canadian-built machine is memorable because it was the first to be equipped with the option of a 'live' power take-off with an independent clutch providing controlled power at all times. This revolutionary feature was developed by Cockshutt engineers.'

I'm sure we all look forward to having Mr. Wendel return next month, no doubt refreshed from his trip abroad and full of new information for all of our readers!