REFLECTIONS

A BRIEF WORD

Unidentify Engine

22/5/34

Jim Albaitis

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22/5/20Q. Would like to hear from anyone with information on John Deere #623 and #583 trip plows. Jeff Culp, 69852 County Road 7, Nappanee, IN 46550.

22/5/21Q. T. E. Luckenbaugh, 215 Kelly Road, Abbottstown, PA 17301 would like to hear from anyone with information on the Simplicity engines built at Port Washington, Wisconsin. Information is also needed on Mercury chain saws.

22/5/22Q. Some advertisers use terms like 'NOS' regarding certain parts. What does this mean? H. Rossow, Box 15, Weston, ID 83286.

A. 'NOS' means 'new old stock' in referring to parts actually unused, even though they may be quite old, and frequently obsolete. Recently we have seen 'NORS' which we take to mean that the parts are 'new or restored stock,' although 'restored' is a generic term that means different things to different people. If you want to see the difference, go to any show and look at the 'restored' engines- there's a big difference in what 'restored' means! NOS parts are usually-thought of as being in new or near new condition, but this is not always the case either. Sometimes NOS parts might be covered with considerable rust, dirt, and organic material thoughtfully left there by visiting birds or rodents. Caveat emptor, Let the buyer beware.

22/5/23Q. I have an 8 HP Witte throttling governor engine, s/n 91412. None of my information mentions the 8 HP model, nor do any of the parts suppliers list parts for the 8 HP model. I need valves and rings for this engine and would like to hear from other 8 HP Witte owners. Elliott Smith, 1401 Main St., Conway, SC 29526.

A. Piston rings should be no problem, regardless of the make. There are some GEM advertisers who handle a wide variety of rings, and even one who makes rings to order. Valves are a bit more difficult, and if they are beyond refinishing the only alternative is to turn new ones from the solid, or to cut down some old tractor valves. This is difficult because modern valve steels are a challenge to any lathe bit. On the bright side of things, the hunt is 90% of the fun in restoring old engines.

22/5/24Q. What is the year built for a Stover, s/n TB264884, a Fairbanks-Morse 'Z' 1? HP, s/n 541137? What type of modern lubricants do you recommend for cylinder oilers and grease cups? On my 1? HP engine, the timing marks are one tooth off of matching, although the engine runs fine. Might this have been changed for a certain kind of fuel? Paul Frasier, 12234 Harris, Carleton, MI 48117.

A. The Stover was built in 1939; the FBM in 1923. We are hesitant to recommend lubricants to our readers, since someone might take this as gospel and later on give us the blame because the bearings burned out or the flywheel fell off. However, on our own engines, we use ALL of the modern lubricants we can-some of the greases for instance, have antifriction properties that the old timers could never have dreamed of. It's the lubricating film that's important- big gobs of grease flying all around don't help a thing. Likewise, the old adage about those sticky lubricants like castor machine oil, or even worse, the old chassis lubricant of years ago have been proven wrong- the new lubricants have much better film properties than these ever did. Not to be concerned about the timing marks-in many cases it is necessary to shift one or two teeth to get the maximum spark-this has nothing at all to do with the type of fuel.

22/5/25 Mr. Dick Hamp, 1772 Conrad Avenue, San Jose, CA 95124 has sent in some material on historical development of the internal combustion engine. Since some articles are being planned on this subject, using some of the material we recently acquired from Franklin Institute, we herewith gratefully acknowledge Mr. Hamp's material and will incorporate its data into some coming articles. Thanks for your help, Dick. The Reflector.

22/5/26 Don Worley, 254 Pleasant Drive, Warren, PA 16365 would like to correspond with anyone having information on the Straight-Line gasoline engine or the R.G. Shiley gas engine, both of which were built in Warren, PA.

22/5/27Q. I have an Oliver 500 tractor made for Oliver by David Brown. Several tractors by David Brown have the same transmission, clutch and lift system but the gas engine seems to be a problem to find information about. Would like to correspond with anyone having a service manual or other information on this engine-Have tried dealers in this area, but no help. Glenn Graham, RD 1, Box 63, Indiana, PA 15701.

A. The Oliver 500 was built between 1960 and 1963. Beyond that, we can find no other data on this tractor.

22/5/28Q. Does anyone make the brush that screws into the magneto on the John Deere 1? HP engine? Rod Bryan Jr., Rt. 2, Box 131 A, Forrest City, AR 72335.

A. Surely some of the GEM advertisers have this brush, either new or used. Also some of the old established John Deere dealerships might have one left.

22/5/29Q. I am an IHC engine collector and recently acquired a small cast iron bear 5 inches tall, in bib overalls. On his chest is the IHC logo, and on the front of the base is 'Louisville', and on the rear, 'Jan. 1949.' Could you give me any information on this? Jim C. Wise, 1900 Liberty Park, Sedalia, MO 65301.

A. We would guess this was a promotional piece cast at IHC's Louisville Works. Send us a photograph!

22/5/30Q. I have a 1 HP IHC Titan hopper cooled engine. It is now complete and ready to paint. I cannot find the serial number-where might it be stamped? I have the red paint for the main frame, but would like to know the proper trim color. Would the flywheels be all black? or are they red? Also it looks like the 'Titan' name is white, along with the flywheel rims. Any information will be appreciated. Louis Meszaros, RD 1, Box 416, Glenfield, NY 13343.

A. IHC paint colors are always a confusing issue-it appears that the color scheme changed frequently. We have seen these engines with black flywheels, and some with an all red finish. If white was used, we suspect it would be closer to the cream or ivory finish that IHC used on other farm equipment. Usually these engines are striped in chrome yellow or a bright yellow gold.

22/5/31 Wayne C. Greenwood, 6425 Grove Road, Oswego, IL 60543 is trying to compile a list of existing Keck-Gonnerman tractors. See his advertisement in the classified Section of this issue.

22/5/32Q. Would appreciate hearing from anyone with information in regards to the following: Sandwich 1? HP gas engine; 2? HP Lindsay-Alamo engine; and Barco gas hammer. Mike Timm, Route 1, Box 100, Weyauwega, WI 54983.

22/5/33Q. What is the year built for a 2 HP Fairbanks-Morse Jack of all Trades engine, s/n 85470. This number is not listed in Vol. II of 'Power in the Past.' Also need to know the proper paint color. Ronald Sevart, 111 N. Cherokee, Girard, KS 66743.

A. We would believe that 1910 would probably be very close to the right year, and we suspect that this engine was probably painted red, according to information we have received on the subject.

22/5/34Q. Can anyone identify this engine given below? The governor and some other parts are missing, but we need to identify it first before trying to find the parts. Joe Spell, 1905 Ridgeway Lane, Hattiesburg, MS 39401.  

A. Your engine was built by Root & Vandervoort at Moline, Illinois, and is part of the R & V Triumph line. The governor casting on these engines was of pot metal which disintegrated with time, so this is often missing or nearly so. It is our recollection that one of our readers has made new castings of this governor, but we don't presently recall the gentleman's name.

22/5/35 Several weeks ago, Nigel Overton, Keeper of Maritime & Aviation History, Southampton City Museums, St. Michael's Square, Southampton, SO1 OAD England wrote to C. Lyle Cummins at Carnot Press, Lake Oswego, Oregon 97035. Mr. Over-ton enclosed several views (see photo) of a Monarch marine engine for which additional information is needed. Mr. Cummins forwarded the letter to us, and we are happy to be of help. Should anyone have any information, kindly contact both Mr. Overton and the Reflector regarding this very unusual engine design.  

READERS WRITE

22/3/3 Cleveland Tractor Co. Carl Bruss, 7050 South 27th St., Oak Creek, WI 53154 writes: I would say this is a Cleveland tractor Co. 'General GG' tractor. The General of about 1939-1940 was painted Indian yellow, about the same color as zinc chromate. When the B. F. Avery tractor came out the standard color was Tar-Tar red, a pretty bright orange red with a cream grill, hood, and fenders. However one of my tractors was painted John Deere colors-I got it that way. Municipal orange was also available on request. The B. F. A very, Moline version is painted yellow with red wheels.

B. F. Avery tractors had 3 front wheel options-single front wheel, twin front wheels, and adjustable front axle. The Cleveland GG sold for $595 on rubber and with crank start. Montgomery Ward sold their Ward's Twin-Row for $680 with starter and lights and with rubber tires in February, 1941.

Incidentally, Tar-Tar Red is still a shelf stock paint made by Sherwin-Williams Co.

(Mr. Bruss also forwarded photocopy material on B.F. Avery and several other items for which we say, 'thanks.')

22/3/6 Briggs & Stratton Several letters came in on this one-all agreeing that it is one of their 'M' series engines, produced from May, 1930 to March, 1934.

22/3/14 Mercury 2-man chain saw C. H. Chase, Box 51, RFD, Concord, VT 05824 writes that the Mercury 2-man saw came to Vermont in 1942 or 1943, and originated in Germany. The early Mercury-Disston was a 6 HP model, and later an 11 HP model came out-it weighed 105 pounds. The blade turned to saw down trees since the engine had to run in its normal position; the carburetor was not pressurized. The Mall chain saw came out about the same time. To quote Mr. Chase: 'Nuff said on man killers.'

Mr. Chase also enclosed a photo of his Moody Big 6 engine made in Quebec, Canada (see photo given below).

Comment on Mall engine, Nov. 1086 GEM

John Chmiko, 307 S. Clinton Ave., St. Johns, MI 48879 writes that he has an engine just like the one pictured except that it has the base cast into a garden tractor frame-this one being the Empire Garden Tractor Co., Windsor, Ontario. They used a Briggs & Stratton Model B that attached to their frame. The complete engine cannot be removed from this tractor without a cutting torch.

A Thank You from Canada

Peter J. Nortcliffe, Box 723, Blair-more, Alta. T0K 0E0 Canada extends his thanks to all who replied to his query from the July, 1986 GEM.

B. F. Avery information Paul Shirley, HC 61, Box 312, Massena, NY 13662 writes that the Ward's Twin-Row was built by Cleveland Tractor Co. About 1946 the B. F. Avery came out-it had the lower part of the grill sloped back, had individual foot brakes, and live hydraulics. Mr. Shirley has considerable literature on these tractors which he will photocopy for cost plus the postage.

The Fordson-Samson Connection In the February GEM, mention was made of a Co-op tractor coupled to a Farmall F-12 rear end. Kenneth Fie-gel, RR 3, Box 14, Kingfisher, OK 73750 recollects coupling a Fordson engine to the rear section of a Samson tractor. Apparently the Fordson had a better engine than the Samson, but Ford was seriously delinquent with their worm-drive final drive system. The Fordson-Samson coupling gave the best of existing worlds.

Holland engine carburetor information Jon E. Hardgrove, The Carburetor Shop, Route 1, Box 230-A, Eldon, MO 65026 writes that the Holley Model NH carburetor, along with the Kingston Model L-4 was first used on the Ford Model T in 1920. Actually there were at least three different Model NH carburetors used by Ford; Part No. 6200 (1920-23); Part No. 6200-B (1924-25); and Part No. 6200-C (1926). The differences are minor and would not be recognized by many Model T restorers. Prior to 1920 at least nine different Holley and eight different Kingston carburetors were used by Ford on the Model T. Many of these are extremely rare. The NH 6200 and 6200-B are common. Also I am in need of data on Bennett, Kingston, and Schebler carburetors. All letters will be answered.

21/5/27 A Jacobsen engine Andy Mackey, 25 Mott Pl., Rockaway, NJ 07866 commented on several of the recent columns, and we include his observation that the above mentioned engine is a Jacobsen 4-cycle engine as mounted on their '4 Acre' reel lawn mower. Built on a short time, these are quite rare. The one shown is missing the fan shroud.

22/2/9 Fairbanks-Morse paint colors In response to the above, we purchased two Model 32E14 engines several years ago, and in dismantling them we found an old can of Pittsburgh paint labeled 'Special Fairbanks Morse, Number 614, Gunmetal.' This paint looks black at first glance, but on looking closer, it has a definite bluish cast, about the same color as old gun barrel bluing. Ken Robison, 20531 Black Road, Los Gatos, CA 95030.

22/2/11 Wes White's letter Ray Miller, 2815 Niagara Blvd., Fort Erie, Ontario L2A 5M4 Canada writes that this engine is referenced in Meredith Brison's GEM article of May-June, 1968. The Brownwall hopper cooled engines were built in Models A, 1? HP; C, 3 HP; B, ? HP; D, ? HP; and E, 10 HP. styles A, B, and D were also built as air-cooled. Also regarding:

22/2/12 My thoughts are that many of the parts resemble the Ottawa engine of about 1915 vintage.

(Ray also sent along some excellent information on the American Marc Diesel engine referred to in a recent issue.)

A CLOSING WORD

Please note that we often get several replies to a specific question. To print each and every one would be redundant, so we combine this information wherever possible. Whether your name is printed with this information or not, please accept our thanks for taking the time to help our hobby!

MODELMAKERS' CORNER

The Atkinson engine was built in England during the 1890's, and a few were built in the United States during the same period. This peculiar engine is a four-cycle engine, but through its unique linkage, all four events, intake, compression, power, and exhaust are accomplished with one revolution of the crankshaft. Our question is this-has anyone developed patterns, drawings, or castings for a model of the Atkinson engine similar to that shown in the photograph given below? If such a model exists, kindly contact the Reflector.

Brad E. Smith, 7574 So. 74th St., Franklin, WI 53132 sends a photo and description of a boring bar arrangement for model engine cylinders and similar applications. Use this setup for jobs too large to be held in a lathe chuck.  

First, remove the compound and make a boring table that bolts to the lathe carriage. The cylinder can be held down on the boring table. A large boring bar can be made from a piece of bar stock. Drill a cross hole to hold the tool bit and lock the tool bit in place with a setscrew. The boring bar is held in the lathe chuck while the cylinder is moved with the carriage feed. The photo shows a cylinder for a 'Coles' Corliss engine on my boring table that is mounted on an Atlas 12' lathe.

If an engine cylinder has a pin hole through the casting that becomes apparent after the engine is finished, the cylinder can be easily fixed without replacing the cylinder. Loctite makes two products for sealing weld porosity. This Loctite is drawn into the hole by a wicking action and will seal to 300 degrees F. and pressures above 250 psi. The products are: Loctite AA/Weld Sealant, for iron, steel, and brass ONLY; and Loctite 290 for aluminum or zinc. Clean the oil off the casting and apply the Loctite. Let dry for about 12 hours to insure a full cure.

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