Associated  HP engine


George Renshaw

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26/7/13 FBM Z 3 HP Q. I have a FBM 'Z', 3 HP with s/n 516556. has a gear driven FBM magneto. How does one tell the various stales used? Steve Dale, 615 Maple, Edmonds, WA 98020.

A. Your engine was made in 1922. It was likely equipped with the Bosch AB-33 oscillating high tension magneto, and was probably retrofitted with the rotary style at a later time. FBM offered retrofit kits at a reasonable cost, and we think this is a tribute to the company for providing the changeover kits as a definite improvement for their engines. We're not convinced that the changeover is a negative factor, especially since we've never been convinced that the American Bosch AB-33 was a tremendous design.

26/7/14 Sattley Engine Q. Can you tell me the year built and the proper color scheme for the Sattley 3 HP hit-and-miss engine, s/n 43356? There is some red paint on the engine that looks like primer, but I'm not sure. Kerry McDale, 171 Highland Dr., Winnemucca, NV 89445.

A. We can't tell you much about the age of the Sattley engines other than what is given on pages 316-17 of American Gas Engines. About 1918, however, Montgomery Ward adopted the color scheme of brown paint for the kerosene engines and black paint for the hit-and-miss gasoline engines.

26/7/15 Continental Motor Q. Can anyone tell me about an old military engine? It has the following pertinent information on the nameplate:

1 -cylinder air-cooled4-cycle, overhead valves8 cubic inch displacement s/n E-001088

Mfd by Continental Motor Corp. Date Mfd 7-60

This engine will not run smooth, and I need to find someone with some information on this engine. Patrick Sweeney, 2108 Oak Lodge Road, Baltimore, MD 21228.

26/7/15 McCormick-Deering Engine Q. Can anyone supply information on a McCormick-Deering engine, 1? HP, s/n AW105289? Frank Pence, Apt C6, 303 Edwards Rd., Greensboro, NC 27410.

A. Your engine was built in 1931. Considerable information on these engines is available from various GEM advertisers.

26/7/16 W-12 McCormick-Deering If you can supply the authentic colors of a McCormick-Deering W-12 tractor, kindly send this information to Raymond Reinders, PO Box 225, Mallard, IA 50562. Also, please send us a copy of this information here at GEM.

26/7/17 Cletrac Model E-68 Q. I recently bought a Cletrac Model E-68, s/n 4A210. It uses a Hercules OOC four-cylinder, 4 x 4? inch engine, s/n 241776. Some questions: 1) What year was this tractor built? 2) What is the proper color? 3) Is there a service source for parts, manuals, etc.? 4) Is this the same Hercules that made the hit-and-miss engines? 5) Is there a history available on the Hercules company that made this tractor engine? Thanks for any help. Harley Collins, 2540 Fox  Road, Bath, PA 18014.

A. We can tell you that the E-68 (68' track gauge) was built in the 1934-41 period, starting with s/n 1A00 and ending at 5A330. It used the Hercules OOC engine, and these numbers begin at 223630. Beyond that we have no further information on the year-by-year serial numbers for actual production. We can also tell you that Martin-Senour 90T-3728 Orange is the correct color. This is an entirely different Hercules company from the firm down at Evansville which built the Economy, Hercules, Jaeger, and other engines. If anyone can provide yearly serial number listings on the Cletrac tractors, a copy of same would be a tremendous help, especially since we get a lot of requests for Cletrac information. As we indicated at the beginning of this column, Cletrac info is very elusive, or at least it has been so for us.

For Oliver-Cletrac and Oliver crawlers, readers are directed to contact:

Mary Ann Townsend,Floyd County Historical Museum, Charles City, Iowa (515)2284099

For a very reasonable photocopy charge, they might be able to supply information on late Cletrac models, plus most of the Hart-Parr, Oliver, and Cockshutt tractors.

26/7/18 Associated ? Model Q. See the two photos of an Associated ? HP engine. It is hit-and-miss governed, and I think two-cycle, because the carburetor is on the crankcase. What is the proper gas-oil mixture for this engine? George Renshaw, 243 Bashon Hill Rd., Bozrah, CT06334.

A. Can any of the Associated ? HP owners kindly contact Mr. Renshaw and give him the needed information.

26/7/19 International Tractor Q. See the two photos of an International tractor. The engine nameplate reads:

Famous EngineNo. XB317 25h.p.International Harvester Co.

Any help or information will be greatly appreciated. Bud Motry, 220201 Arthur Rd., Big Rapids, MI 49307.

A. This engine was built early in 1911 as a tractor engine. A similar tractor is shown on page 274 of the book, 150 Years of International Harvester. Only 274 units were built between 1910 and 1914. You've sent us a 'before' picture. Could you favor us with an 'after' picture when you get this one restored?

26/7/20 Alamo Vertical Engine Q. I own several American-built gas engines. At the moment I am restoring an Alamo 3 HP vertical engine Mine has a broken crankshaft and it is missing the fuel pump and priming lever. If anyone has any information, dimensions, or other help, I would appreciate hearing from you so that I can get this engine restored. Jim Bennett, Warburton Hwy, Launching Place, Victoria 3139, Australia.

26/7/21 Bulldog Engine Q. I have a Bull Dog engine, Type BD, 2? HP. The nameplate reads: The Fairbanks Company. This engine looks like the Bulldog on page 48 of American Gas Engines, under the Bates & Edmonds heading. Any information, etc. will be appreciated. Roy Holten, 18498 Manchac Point Rd., Prairieville, LA 70769.

A. Fairbanks Co. did indeed sell the Bates & Edmonds line of Bull Dog engines for some years. Your letter indicates that you have numerous missing parts. Perhaps some of our readers might be able to supply some photos, parts dimensions, etc. There are no original drawings or other information to be found.

26/7/22 Small Engine Disease Q. I think I must have the small engine disease. A friend of mine showed me a copy of GEM, and now I'm looking for a restorable hit-and-miss engine. What is a fair price? Prices I've seen for a stuck engine seem to start at about $275. Are there any books available on engine prices? Are some engines better than others as regards parts availability? Dean Brigalli, 433 Margaret Drive, Fairborn, OH 45324.

A. One reason there isn't a price guide is that prices fluctuate wildly, especially from one geographical area to another. Thus, ye olde Reflector has always held that a price guide really doesn't mean much. For those starting out in the hobby, we would suggest going to some of the engine swap meets and auctions around the country to get some idea of the market. For those having nothing but a few hand tools, we would recommend staying with an engine that is simple to work on, and one for which used or repro parts might be available. These would include the Deere, Fair banks-Morse 'Z', and International Harvester engines. Parts are virtually impossible to obtain for many of the scarce engines, necessitating the actual fabrication of replacement parts. Unless one is well acquainted with a good machinist, the safe economic path is probably to leave this work to someone else. To farm it all out gets entirely too much money into an engine which from a strict dollars-and-cents standpoint can never be retrieved.

26/7/23 Pouring Bearings Q. My major problem is in how to pour babbitt bearings. Can you tell me how to pour them in place, how much to preheat the casting, and how to cast the grease channels? David H. Reed, 1601 Woods Road SE, Port Orchard, WA 98366.

A. New babbitt liners can be poured in place around the original crankshaft. Assuming that the crankshaft is sitting in the proper right angle location, relative to the cylinder bore, make up some simple jigs that will locate the shaft in the same location after you melt out the old babbitt. Cut out some cardboard (old cereal boxes are ideal) that will go over the mounting bolts and just touch the shaft. Make several thicknesses so there is room to take up the bearings later on. Cut some small notches in the cardboard so that babbitt can run from the top of the bearing to the bottom. Blacken the shaft thoroughly with smoke from the acetylene fire so the babbitt won't stick to the shaft. Buy some furnace cement to close up the sides, or anywhere else that the hot metal can run out. Let it set up. Heat the casting up so that the babbitt will not cool too quickly. Otherwise you'll end with a lot of 'cold shots' and you'll end up doing it over. (Failures aren't unheard of under the best conditions, and with some experience. Ye olde Reflector once poured a bearing three times before it was right, and we've poured a lot of bearings!) While you're heating the casting, you should also be getting the babbitt hot. Don't overheat, or you'll ruin it. It should char a slivered pine stick in about 3 seconds when it's about hot enough. After you pour the bearing and it cools off, take a very thin chisel and dig away the cardboard liners, finally splitting the two halves apart at the v-notches you made before pouring. Now with some finish work, you'll be set again. We find it's easier to cut the grease channels afterward with a very sharp chisel or a regular bearing scraper. Pouring bearings is about like riding a bicycle. It's pretty hard to tell someone how to do it. It comes more by experience and practice. A word of caution: Be danged sure that there is no moisture about when you're pouring bearings. You'll end up with hot metal coming at you with no conscience whatever. And, anyone who tries this without face and eye protection either has a death wish or they're totally nuts!

26/7/24 Spark Plug Fouling Dick Schulze, 20086 Brown Dr., Chelsea, MI 48118 writes:

I have some old tractors that have given me fits with plug fouling since they lowered the lead in gasoline. A set of new plugs would foul out in 5-6 hours. My solution has been to go to a hotter plug, and this has solved the problem so far. Does anyone have any suggestions or comments regarding this problem?

A. We don't have any real answers either, but we have heard that there are some field additives available. Perhaps some of our readers can enlighten us as to the availability of these additives, as well as to the problem of plug fouling in this regard.

26/7/25 Waterloo Boy ColorsQ. I have a 2? HP Waterloo Boy engine, and would like to know the correct color of same. I have been told that the early ones were red, and the later ones were green. Is there a specific breaking point for this change? If anyone has one of these engines restored, could you let me know the paint colors used? LuAnne Knuth, N3057 County Rd M, Hortonville, WI 54944.

A. We're not sure anyone knows when this change was made, although it has been widely assumed that it happened about 1914. Again, this does not give you the specific information you desire. From what we hear, most collectors restore them on the basis of what little traces of color they can find, whether it be red or green. Usually, even a very badly rusted engine will show some tiny evidence of its original color, upon dismantling.

26/7/26 Before & After Q. See 26-A and 26-B as before and after shots of a 4 HP Associated engine. It is a Farm Hand 4 HP model, s/n 4C1432. If anyone can supply me with information on when it was built, it will be appreciated.Bill Poeling, RR 1, Box 280-A, Bethalto, IL 62010.

A. We can't tell you when it was built, but we like the restoration!

26/7/27 Tandem Tractors In the books you have compiled, and in the various magazines, I have found nothing concerning the tandem tractors . That is when you took the front wheels and front axle out of one tractor, put a hitch on the front of it, and hooked it to another tractor on the drawbar of the front tractor. Some farmers did these things in the 1940-60 period. This would make some interesting reading, and something special for the antique tractor buffs to enjoy.

Also, have you ever come across information on the Munktell's tractor that was made in Eskilstuna, Sweden about 1913? It had 7-foot drivewheels and a 14.4 litre, 2-cycle motor with two cylinders. Then there was the 1910 one-cylinder Lambert tractor that was made at Anderson, In diana. I have never seen anything in GEM about these two old antiques. George L. Jacobs, 708 Knapp St., Wolf Point, MT 59201.

A. If anyone has information on any of the above, send it over, and we'll be glad to use it.

26/7/28 Unknown Tractor Q. I am trying to find the origins of a tractor. On the brass plaque it reads, McCord Corporation, Detroit, Michigan. Mfg. under one or more of the following patents: 1,978,604 etc. Any information will be appreciated. John Burgess, c/o P.O. Box 1406, Bunbury, 6230, Western Australia.

A. The plaque to which you refer is apparently for the radiator, not for the tractor. This appears to be an Allis-Chalmers tractor. On the Model WD tractor the s/n is stamped on the top of the left differential brake housing. On the WC and WF tractors, the number is located on the rear of the differential housing, just above the operator platform.

26/7/29 Domestic Engine Q. I am working on a Domestic 3? HP engine, s/n 17150, and need to know the year and proper paint color scheme. Any information will be appreciated. Henry G. Liepe Sr., RD 3, Box 242, Mays Landing, NJ 08330.

A. If you can be of help, please let Mr. Leipe and GEM know the proper color of the Domestic engines ASAP.

26/7/30 Information Needed Q. C. Lindsey, 47 Arlesey Road, Ickleford-near-Hitchin, Herts, SG5 3TG England sent us a fax for information on the following engines:1. Acadia 3? HP, s/n 350012. Alamo 1? HP, s/n 985533. Amanco (Associated) 6 Mule Team s/n 6096304. Banner 3 HP s/n 1402365. Lauson Frost King Jr., (DeLaval) 1?HP6. Galloway 3 HP s/n 452147. IHC Famous 4 HP, s/n SC22308. IHC Famous 4 HP LA181229. Lindsay Alamo 2? HP, s/n 6730410.  New Holland 2 HP, Type P, s/n 7696

A. The Banner in 4. above might be the same as already noted previously in 26/7/12. The engines noted in 7. and 8. above were both built in 1912. We have no information regarding the date built on any of the other engines. If any of our readers can be of help, please do so. It's very hard to get information on an engine from one side of the Atlantic to the other, and we've always appreciated how people in Holland, Germany, and Sweden helped out ye olde Reflector in a quest for information on our Junkers diesel engine. So please, if you can help Mr. Lindsey, kindly do so.

26/7/31 Woollery Motors Q. Did Desco-Dominion Equipment & Supply of Winnipeg sell Woollery motor cars and engines? Were any sold under the Desco name, and if so, did any of these have six-spoke flywheels? Does anyone have any information on the Veerac Co. of Minneapolis? I believe they built railway motor car engines. See the two photos of a Veerac. Has anyone heard of an Adams motor car or engine? Jon Bontrager, 2701 West Wilden, Goshen, IN 46526.

A. If anyone has some answers to these interesting questions, we'll be glad to hear about it.

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