Unidentified Cutaway


Eugene S

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By the time this copy is in your hands, we will be into the month of November. However, this is our first opportunity to thank everyone who stopped by to see us at the Midwest Old Threshers Reunion in September. Hundreds, and perhaps even a few thousand of you stopped by to see us. Ye olde Reflector and all the folks at GEM wish to thank you for your continued support and encouragement!

Ye olde Reflector finally got the first edition of the Notebook into print during August (see advertisement in this issue). We're not entirely pleased with the result, and we're already working on ideas for the next edition, including typeset pages, and much more material. Even after 25 years in this business, we still can't believe there was so much work in compiling this first effort! Also on the home front, the Reflector is finally building a printing shop and office building! We've talked about this for years, and finally decided to bite the bullet and go ahead. Once everything is moved in and organized, we'll have room to work. Hopefully, the added space and convenience will mean less work for us as we continue with the monthly Reflections column and various writing projects.

Here is our final notice to all snowbirds: Did you drain your engines and tractors? Remember, frost has no mercy!

We begin this issue with:

26/12/1 McCormick-Deering Type M Etc. Q. I would like to correspond with someone familiar with the ignitor used on the IHC Type M engines. Someone rebuilt mine, but it isn't quite right. I also own a Foos 6 HP engine with the wipe spark ignition, and would like to hear from other Foos owners. Is there a registry of Foos engines ?

Lastly, I'd like to know the date built for the following engines:

FBM, s/n 583923, FBM, s/n 696721, Witte, sin 49223, Todd A. Hay ward, 2 Hillside Pi., Winsted, CT 06098.

A. Regarding the year built, we answer in order, 1923, 1928, and February 25, 1921.

26/12/2 Bates & Edmonds Many thanks to Glen R. Stenbak, 8817 Prentice Ave., Gig Harbor, WA 98332 for sending us a photocopy of a Bates & Edmonds catalog for our files. It is appreciated!

26/12/3 Novo Pumping Outfit Q. My brother John and I are 13 years old. We have been helping our dad with his engines for awhile and have finally gotten one of our own. It is a Novo Pumping Outfit, s/n P5256. We would appreciate hearing from anyone about the approximate age of the outfit, and the color; it was red when we got it. John and I would also like copies of literature or information on the engine. John and I really enjoy working with gas engines and hope more kids do too. Jeff and John Hankel, RR 1,Box 164, York, NE 68467.

A. If any of you folks are able to help these young collectors, would you kindly do so? We'll appreciate it, and so will they!

26/12/4 Centaur Tractor Q. I have a rough Centaur tractor powered by a one-cylinder New-Way engine It is identical to the one shown on page 27 of the May-June 1972 GEM. Is this style of engine made expressly for the Centaur, or were there other applications? All tags and serial numbers are missing, so I don't know the engine model. I would also like to know the correct carburetor and magneto so I can search for replacements. Does anyone have the proper colors? Any and all help will be much appreciated. Dean Dennis, RR 1 Box 444, Wingdale, NY12594.

A. We can't be of much help in this regard, and we don't have the paint scheme in our Notebook either. If anyone knows the proper colors, please convey this info to Mr. Dennis and to the Reflector.

26/12/5 Stover Stone Mills Thanks to Edgar Wagner, 1918 Hillison Rd., Amboy, IL 61310 for sending us a photocopy of the Stover Buhr Mill catalog. We have long known that Stover made a few stone mills, but we have only seen one of them, and have never before run across any literature on same.

26/12/6 Unusual John Deere A reader who wishes his name witheld sends us the photo below. It illustrates an unusual John Deere 3 HP engine with a unique projection on the head, plus an oil bath air cleaner. It was displayed at the Johnny Popper Days Show at Drayton, Ontario. Our reader wasn't able to talk with the owner. Perhaps someone can tell us about this style of engine.

26/12/7 Stover Type RX Engine Q. Can you tell me the proper color scheme and the year built for a 6 HP Stover engine, s/n RX144003? Is a manual available for same? Doug Evans, 610 Hills Point Rd., Cambridge, MD 21613.

A. Your engine was built in 1921. This being the case, your engine could have been a deep red, PPG 71965, or a deep brewster green, DuPont 2015. If there is any trace of color left, use that to determine the original color. The instructions for the Stover Jr. engines are contained in the book, Power in the Past, Vol 3: Stover Engine Works, available from GEM.

26/12/8 Kohler Light Plant Sam Ebersol, 169 Witmer Rd., Lancaster, PA 17602 needs information on a four-cylinder Kohler light plant. (We don't know the model).

26/12/9 Ingeco Engine Q. I recently acquired a 1? HP Ingeco engine, Type AJ, s/n 13758. It appears similar to the one shown on page 242 of American Gas Engines. Can anyone advise the color scheme and year built? John Paur, 2828 Holly Hills Ln., Cameron Park, CA 95682.

A. We have Sherwin-Williams F10G3061 listed (1972 Dodge Pickup). Our guess is that this engine was built in the 1912-1917 period.

26/12/10 Unidentified Part Q. I recently purchased a glazed open top crock with a brass petcock on the bottom. See the photo. Does anyone know its use, or have any literature on this item? John Doherty, 9195 N. 267, Brownsburg, IN 46112.

26/12/11 IHC Mogul & Giant Engines

Q. International Harvester built single cylinder engines under the Mogul and Giant trademarks at Chicago Tractor Works. It appears that everything is identical in parts used, so what is the difference? Ted H. Stein, 412 W. Second St., Streator, IL 61364.

A. Although the Giant trademark is generally thought of in regard to the 25 and 50 HP models, it may also have been applied to smaller sizes as well. These two terms were simply model designators, and where for example two 8 HP sideshaft engines were built, one having Mogul, and one having Giant on the plate, the two engines were probably destined for different markets, rather than the designator signifying any difference in design. For twenty years, IHC faced tremendous problems with the Federal Anti-Trust Suit, and this forced the company to operate several distinct corporations under the corporate umbrella of International Harvester Company. For example, Mc-Cormick dealers sold the Mogul line, while Deering dealers sold the Titan line. These were distinctively different models that competed with each other, yet both were under control of International Harvester Company. This entire process is detailed in our book, 150 Years of International Harvester. It is a situation so complicated that even our detailed study in the above book barely does justice to the problems involved. Finally, when the government was satisfied, the separate lines were dropped, and at that point we see the emergence of the McCormick-Deering line.

26/12/12 Jaeger Engine Q. Being new to the engine hobby, 1 need some information on a Jaeger 3E (HP) engine, Model A4H, s/n 265871. Any information will be appreciated. One of the flywheels has a crack. Should 1 weld or replace it? Robert F. Itnyre, 73818 White Sands, Twenty-nine Palms, CA 92277.

A. Your engine was built about 1922. It was finished blue, similar to PPG 13500 or DuPont 5183-DH Blue. This engine was built by Hercules. Further information is available in the book, A History of Hercules by Glen Karch, available from GEM.

26/12/13 Novo Engine Q. Can anyone provide any information on the Novo engine in the photo below? The cooling tank carries Perfection Mfg. Co. Any information will be appreciated. Malcolm M. Roberts, PO Box 2053, Vineyard Haven, MA 02568.

A. This Novo model of the 1930s was extensively used with ditch pumps and many other applications. However, the large hopper leads us to believe that this engine was used on a milking machine vacuum pump, probably built by the Perfection Mfg. Corp., Minneapolis, Minnesota.

26/12/14 Hercules-Economy-Jaeger Q. We have three of this type of engine. The 1? HP has a crank guard and we are sure it is a Hercules. The other two originally showed signs of red paint, so we assume they are Economy. How does one tell the difference? Any help will be appreciated. One other comment. There are some citrus cleaning products available. You simply spray the cleaner on the metal engine parts, wait 5 minutes or so, and then wash off with water. Another product called 'Chisel' is mainly for gasket removal, paint, etc. One must be careful with this product, but it does an excellent job. Bruce Wittgren, 104 East 150 South, Valparaiso, IN 46383.

A. See 26/12/12 above regarding this engine line. Mr. Karch did yeoman service by carefully researching the various engines built by Hercules, and his book should prove helpful.

26/12/15 Unidentified Engine Q. See the two photos of an unidentified engine. It is 1? HP, s/n 319142. Can anyone identify the make, the proper color scheme, etc.? Ray Fuller, PO Box 593, Lanett, AL 38683.

A. We're inclined to think that it was built by Hercules, yet there are features that don't seem to match up. Can anyone help out?

26/12/16 Detroit Engine? Q. The engine in the photo looks like the Detroit on page 132 of American Gas Engines. It appears to be about 2? HP. It is missing the nameplate and other parts. Is the Sandow interchangeable? Are the injectors the same for all engine sizes ? It has one 11? x 2? inch flywheel. Does anyone have measurements for the cooling tank, gas tank, battery box, and skid? All letters answered. Detroit/Sandow pen pals welcome. John Hamilton, 461 Algonquin Pl., Webster Groves, MO 63119.

A. We can't be of much help on John's inquiry, so can anyone out there lend a hand?

26/12/17 Graham-Bradley Tractor Q. I have a Graham Bradley, Model 503.103, s/n 70,001 sold by Sears & Roebuck in 1937. I need a paint match for this tractor. Sears lists the body color as 'red' and the wheels as 'green'. Raymond Mueller, S7577 Huber Rd., North Freedom, WI53951.

A. Our Notebook lists David Bradley as PPG41780 Green and PPG 72155 Red. However, we don't believe that these are the right colors for the Graham-Bradley. If anyone can supply a color match for the Graham-Bradley, please let us know!

26/12/18 FBM Identification Q. We have a Fairbanks-Morse Z engine, 2 HP, and two patent dates of 1917. The s/n stamped on the engine appears to be G33330. This engine has the dishpan flywheels. Any help will be appreciated. Boyd Kenaston, 897 N. 1300 W., Salt Lake City, UT 84116.

A. From your description of the engine and a look at the s/n list, we wonder if the first digit shouldn't be '6' instead of 'G'. That would make it a 1925 model, and this would agree with the approximate production period of this particular engine.

26/12/19 Hess Mono-Marine Engine Q. See the photos 19A, 19B and 19C. They illustrate a Hess Mono Marine engine, 4 to5HP, 925 r.p.m., Type A-MT, No. 560. I can find no information on this engine. It was built at Algonac, Michigan. Photo 19C illustrates a Fairbanks-Morse Electrical Mfg. Co. engine, 3 x 3 ? bore and stroke, 800 r.p.m., Type 1-5, and s/n 10656. It is connected to a 32 volt generator. Can anyone provide any details on this engine? A. G. McGrice, Wongala, Girilam Bone, New South Wales, 2831, Australia.

A. We've never heard of the Hess before, and there's little we can tell you about the FBM engine. Can anyone help???

26/12/20 Unidentified Cutaway Q. See the three photos of a cutaway engine which I have displayed at several shows. No one has been able to identify it so far. It is a four-stroke design, and shows signs of the olive drab military color. It has a 1? x 1? bore and stroke. Can anyone identify this engine? Eugene S. Stine, RR 7, Box 299, Lehighton, PA 18235.

26/12/21 IHC Famous Q. What is the proper color for an IHC Famous, 6 HP, s/n R3935? Norman Fraser, 10435 N. Portal Ave., Cupertino, CA95014.

A. We believe the early IHC Red to be similar to PPG- Ditzler 2833. The IHC Red #50 is a bit lighter, and is Ditzler 70019.

26/12/22 Alamo Engine Q. I have a 3 HP Alamo, s/n 109748. What is the year built, and the proper color? Ken Fall, 04917 Boyne City Rd., Boyne City, Ml 49712.

A. No records exist for Alamo. The Notebook lists PPG 13594 Blue as a comparable color match.

26/12/23 Cletrac Information Thanks to D. E. Spark, PO Box 19, Goomalling, 6460 West Australia for sending us photocopies of some Cletrac material. We are presently gathering material for a book on Oliver and Hart-Parr. Of course this also includes the famous Cletrac line.

26/12/24 Computer Software Don Hayes, RR 1, Box 130, Greensburg, IN 47240 would like to know if any specialized software exists for collectors of tractors and related equipment. This software might include general information, pictures, and background on the machinery-a computer magazine of sorts.

26/12/25 Eclipse Lawn Mower Clifford Ruhter, RR 2, Box 430, Lexington, TX 78947 needs information on an Eclipse Reel-Type Lawn Mower, s/n 1206 with a Craftsman Special Motor, s/n 7095259, Model 143-90020.

26/12/26 Free Offer! For your readers I offer the following: Tornado feed cutter mfd. by W. R. Harrison & Co., Canton, Ohio. Pat. Feb 20, 1888 and Aug 3, JS86. Various useable parts for someone doing a restoration. My intent is to give the parts to someone that is in need of parts to restore their machine. 1 rescued it from the scrap heap to restore, but too much is needed, so perhaps what I have will help someone else complete their restoration. Contact: Chuck Stone, E4203 - 43rd Ave., Spokane, WA 99223.

26/12/27 Pioneer Threshing Machine Q. I have a 1924 Pioneer, wood consttruction, and good condition, but needs repainting. The color is red, however, I don't want to lose the intricate pinstriping. How can the decorative work be duplicated? There is a lot of it. In fact, I would rather leave it unpainted than lose the pin striping. Any ideas? John B. Mulford Jr., Penrith Farm, 8894 Upper Lake Rd., Lodi, New York 14860.

A. The only way we know would be to take a series of color photos beforehand, and then have a professional redo the striping after the machine is repainted. We would surely have the painter engaged ahead of time so as to get the right views of everything. As an alternative, would it be possible to carefully scrub up the machine with a brush, soap, and water? Then use a couple coats of varnish over the existing finish?