Reflections_b

A BRIEF WORD

Stover Engine

25/12/12

Samuel Spencer

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25/12/12 Stover Engine Q. I have three Stover engines, and am puzzled by the paint scheme. The first one is a KA model. The flywheels and con rod cover were red, with a black cylinder head. The push rod, firing mechanism, and gears were black. The second KA had a green body, red flywheels, con rod, and splash shield. The head, push rod, firing mechanism, and gears are green. The CT2 model has a green body, red flywheels, black cylinder head, push rod, and firing mechanism. Can you tell me what is the correct color scheme? Samuel Spencer III, 1285-A Lovett Rd., Orange Park, FL 32073.

A. As we pointed out at the beginning of this column, color shades varied from time to time. With Stover (and others), the entire color scheme varied, not only from year to year, but oftentimes, from engine to engine. In this particular instance, we would suggest going with a replacement of the original color scheme, assuming of course that these engines have not been repainted to suit someone's fancy. We have seen Stover engines with all the variations you mention, plus others not indicated. Much of the difference apparently depended on the painters and the mood they were in whenever your engines came off the assembly line. A footnote though-most of the 'K' and 'CT' Stover engines were of the dark and muddy Brewster Green variety, with some occasional use of black.

25/12/13 Stickney Vertical Q. I am trying to restore a Harvard engine, built by Stickney. Those familiar with this engine will see from my sketch that it is somewhat different. So, if anyone can supply information on the missing parts, this will really be appreciated. This engine is very interesting in that it uses five different valves to control fuel, air, and exhaust. In addition there is a fuel metering valve and another rod-operated fuel valve, for seven in all. With all this complicated system, I can hardly wait to see it work. Tim's Tractor Service, 4010 Buena Vista Drive, Paso Robles, CA 93446.

A. Although we can't be of any real help on this one, we urge anyone with any information to contact Tim at the above address. When it comes to sheer complicated mechanisms, this one takes the cake, and we too, would like to see it run!

25/12/14 IHC E4A Magneto Q. On my E4A magneto, the coil is mounted in the armature. Now the goo inside is starting to leak out and gets between the armature and the magnets. Is there anything that can be done? Also, I think that DuPont 27625 charcoal gray is a closer match than the colors listed in the September, 1988 GEM listing. Glenn Terminelli, 162 Snyders Rd., Phillipsburg, NJ08865.

A. The sad fact is that we have never heard of anything to stop this deterioration of the insulating material. Of course, it is helped in its exit by the centrifugal force of the spinning armature. Once this begins, there seems to be little chance that anything will do except for a new coil. Sealing the outside merely postpones the inevitable, since the loss of the insulating compound allows moisture to enter, and soon a percentage of the coil is shorted out. Fortunately, modern coil making methods use insulating compounds not subject to this type of deterioration. Regarding the IHC Gray, see the new listing at the beginning of this column.

25/12/15 Nelson Bros. Engine Q. See the photo of a 2 HP Nelson Bros. engine, Model U, s/n 6084. Has anyone reprinted a manual for this model? Wayne Miller, 2909 Farrington Rd., Piqua, OH 45356.

A. Not that we know of. If anyone can supply a photocopy, contact Mr. Miller.

25/12/16 Farmall F-20 Q. I am about to restore a Farmall F-20 of 1936 vintage. Did this tractor come out on steel, or rubber, or was there a choice? Also, what is the proper color? Arthur J. Blackmore, RR 2, El Paso, IL 61738.

A. Rubber tires were available at extra cost. See the beginning of this column for the paint number.

25/12/17 Waterloo Boy Engine Q. See the photo of a Waterloo Boy 4 HP engine, sin 17972. What are the original colors, and does anyone have any literature showing the original striping scheme? Any help will be appreciated. Thomas W. Parker, 311 Sproul Rd., Kirkwood, PA 17536.

A. Note the paint colors previously in this issue. If anyone has any literature on the early Waterloo Boy, we would like to see it too! For some reason, it seems to be very elusive.

25/12/18 Wallis Tractor Q. Bob Bemboom, Rt 2, Box 56, Slater, MO 65349 sends a picture of a small Wallis tractor, bearing s/n 14116. It cranks to start it on the side, in the belt pulley. It also has a two-speed transmission. Any information will be greatly appreciated.

25/12/19 Waterloo Boy Q. Patrick C. Zeller, RR J, Box 34, Paxico, KS 66526 needs information on the following Waterloo Boy Engines: 1? HP, need to contact someone to get dimensions of governor and other parts.

2 HP model, need dimensions of the battery box, and the color scheme.

A. Bob also asks about getting springs and other parts for the engines, along with serial number information. The good part is that some of our GEM advertisers have springs and various other replacement parts. The bad news is that there are no Waterloo Boy serial numbers.

25/12/20 Ideal & Waterloo Boy Q. I have 4? HP Waterloo Boy and need year built and correct color, also an Ideal vertical 3? HP. Joseph  J. Englert, 3825 Walnut Road, Walworth, NY 14566.

A. See above in this column regarding the Waterloo Boy colors. No color match is recorded for the Ideal, and serial number lists do not exist for either engine.

25/12/21 Avery & Case Q. See the photo of a Case tractor. The tag reads either M90591DI or A90594DI. What is the model and age! I would like to correspond with someone who might have service information on this model. I also have a Minneapolis-Moline-Avery Model V tractor, s/n 6V688, and would like to hear from someone, particularly regarding the wiring diagram. Any help will be appreciated. Jim Bender, RR7, Box 82, Goldsboro, NC 27530.

A. Although it seems apparent that the Case is a Model DI, we're not certain of the year, but would guess it to have been built in 1955. This is our speculation, since the usual rules for dating Case tractors do not seem to work in this situation. The Avery is a 1952 model.

25/12/22 E. R. Thomas Q. See the photo of a recent acquisition. It was built by E. R. Thomas Co., s/n 1035. What was this engine used for? It has a muffler and cutout, so I suspect a motorcycle. It is equipped with a Robert Bosch magneto (Germany). Any information will be appreciated. Del Englerth, 9750 Valley Hwy., Box 156, Vermontville, Ml 49096.

A. This very possibly was a motorcycle engine, or could also have been used in a runabout. It seems too early for a cyclecar. E.R. Thomas Company later became a well known auto builder with their famous Thomas Flyer. We would suggest this to be a most unusual and rare engine.

25/12/23 Cushman Cub R-20 Q. My name is Jaxed Lawler and I am nine years old. I am interested in old machinery and my father and I are restoring a 3 HP Model R-20 Cushman Cub, serial no. A-39871. We would like to find out a few things about the engine. For instance, what year was the engine made, and what size sparkplug does it use? All information will be appreciated. Please Write: Jared Lawler, RR 2, Clinton, MO 64735.

A. Would those having information on this engine please write Jared at the above address.

25/12/24 Stolen Nameplates Q. Do you know of any way that we can stop the serial number collectors? I think they are about as low as you can get. They stole the plate off our YT Moline and stole the plate off our 8-16 Mogul. I see no reason for them even to remove plates in junkyards because lots of that stuff gets bought and restored. Louis Miller, 807 Pine, Georgetown, TX 78626.

A. Folks, we've been hearing of such things the past couple of years. Now this must be some outside element at work. Among the thousands of GEM subscribers we have met, we can't think of anyone who would do such a dastardly deed! But then, we hearken back to the old adage about the bad apple in the barrel. Perhaps some of our show sites will have to tighten night security. Some shows already are spending a lot of money on security. The only other alternative we can see is to shame a thief, and we're not sure that it's worth the effort. I guess vigilance is the only answer we can offer, and if someone is caught, then let them suffer the full consequences of the law. If anyone has any suggestions, let us hear from you.

25/12/25 Panzer Tractor Q. I recently purchased the Copar Panzer tractor shown in the photo, and am having problems finding any information on it. It uses a Briggs & Stratton 23 engine. Any information will be greatly appreciated. John L. Newsome, RR 1, Box 487A,Callas,VA22435.

25/12/26 MM-Twin City FTA

Q. I recently acquired this FTA, s/n 46047B, and would like to know when built, and whether it is an industrial model. Any information will be appreciated. James H. Orslom, RR 2, Box 65-1, Yazoo City, MS 39194.

A. Our M-M lists do not show the FTA tractor. Some of the M-M collectors should have this information. One such individual is Roger Mohr at Vail, Iowa 51465.

25/12/27 Culver Saw

Q. I need help. Can anyone tell me when and where this Culver Saw was made? And who made it? The name, Culver, and a patent date of January 4,1870 are cast in the flywheel. A later version appears in the No. 5 Genera! Catalog of John Deere Plow Co., ca. 1912-13 as the 'Whitman's Steel Frame Drag Saw.'

Also, I had the Jacob Price 'Petaluma' Hay Press running this summer. Paul Reno, 3254 Kansas St., Oakland, CA 94602.

25/12/28 Jack-of-all-Trades Q. Can anyone supply the dimensions of fuel tank and water tank for a FBM 2 HP Jack-of-All-Trades engine, s/n 59593? Also the year built! T. Scheltema, 6912 -84th St., Caledonia, MI 49316.

A. Your engine is prior to 1910, but we have no lists before that time.

25/12/29 Waterloo Boy Q What is the correct color for a Waterloo Boy engine? Alex Puskas, RD 2, Box 327, Somerset, NJ 08873.

A. See the paint color list earlier in this column.

25/12/30 Unidentified Engine Q. I recently purchased an unidentified engine as shown in the two adjacent photos. It has a 3? x 4 inch bore and stroke, flywheel casting is PI 06. Any help in identifying this engine will be appreciated. Mark G. Sergent, PO Box 21, Walton, WV 25286.

A. Some folks have told Mark that the unusual belt pulley is not original, but we're not sure how anyone would know for sure. In other words, the logical assumption is that if the pulley isn't original, then someone must know what is original, and given that known factor, then someone must know what make it is. Oh, the convoluted path we take sometimes! We checked through American Gas Engines, following some hunches, but must confess that beyond some hunches, we don't know the make for sure. Our guess is that the engine was built for some special purpose. In fact, our first guess was that it might be a C.H. & E. engine built for use with one of their woodworking outfits. After looking up what we have on C.H. & E., we don't believe it to be one of these.

25/12/31 General Tractor Q. See the photo of a Cleveland 'General GG' tractor built by Cleveland Tractor Co. It bears s/n 4FA356. Any information at all on this tractor will be greatly appreciated. Jesse E. Spangler Jr., 6184 Lanman, Waterford, MI 48329.

A. Are you sure the prefix shouldn't be 1FA instead of 4FA? If it is 1FA356, then this tractor was built in 1939.

READERS WRITE

MM 'Z' Restoration

In the August 1990 GEM there is a nicely restored MM 'Z' tractor. The restoration is great, but I would like to call attention to page 15. To support a car or tractor on cement blocks is not good practice and should not be encouraged. A small amount of money for some 4 x 4's and bolts is a good investment. Safety has to be a concern for all of us. Merton H. Wilch, Tecumseh, KS 66542.

We've hollered about safety for years, and the point is well taken. In our own shop, we sometimes try to cut corners, even when we know it is wrong when we are doing it. Folks, again we say it, be careful in what you are doing. Work and play safely.

The Circular Sawmill

Regarding our recent book entitled, The Circular Sawmill, we received a note from George Varnum, 2 Copeland Ave., LaCrosse, WI54603. George tells us that Filer & Stowell Company is still very much in business, and regularly advertise in lumberman's journals. Incidentally, Mr. Varnum is an applications engineer who specializes in sawmill hydraulics.

A Closing Word

Proud grandpa David H. Martin, 5420 Grindstone Hill Rd., Chambersburg, PA 17201, sends this picture, saying 'Grandma took pictures at Christmas dinner, and someone got this cute idea to line up the grandchildren-Tristan, Josh, Ashley, and Robbie-on the toy tractors.'

We have it on good authority that in August 1992 there is going to be a Grand Reunion of Fuller & Johnson. This show will be held at Baraboo, Wisconsin, and we suspect will be a world class exposition of Fuller & Johnson engines and other equipment. The word is that this is going to be a onetime only show, so here's one you might want to be involved with. There will be additional information in the next few months, but you heard it here first!

The purpose of the Reflections column is to provide a forum for the exchange of all useful information among subscribers to GEM. Inquiries or responses should be addressed to: REFLECTIONS, Gas Engine Magazine, P.O. Box 328, Lancaster, PA 17603.

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